Could this be the future?

[tommie]

Will the H-bike take over from the E-bike?!!

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/hydrogen-fuel-cell-e-bike-takes-2-minutes-fill-and-has-60-mile-range.html

 

[soundwave]

The αlpha has a Brose 36V electric motor rated to 250W, which is fed by a "bridging" lithium-ion battery pack with 150 Wh of capacity, which in turn is charged by the onboard 150 W PEM fuel cell. The fuel cell runs off of a 2-liter compressed hydrogen gas cylinder, which can be refilled in about 2 minutes at a filling station made by Atawey,

so it takes 3hrs 2 mins to charge back up plus have to take it to a refuel depot ?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Well spotted SW!

I haven't seen one in the flesh yet, they are about 15 km from my home and are doing a pilot test with the post office. I think the range and charging time is calculated around that type of usage rather than private use.

 

[soundwave]

so they made a Mobil charger that needs charging pmsl

 

[soundwave]

 

[Danidl]

The αlpha has a Brose 36V electric motor rated to 250W, which is fed by a "bridging" lithium-ion battery pack with 150 Wh of capacity, which in turn is charged by the onboard 150 W PEM fuel cell. The fuel cell runs off of a 2-liter compressed hydrogen gas cylinder, which can be refilled in about 2 minutes at a filling station made by Atawey,

so it takes 3hrs 2 mins to charge back up plus have to take it to a refuel depot ?

.. don't see the arguement about three hours. As I see it, the li ion is the buffer and the PEM is the charger. The PEM is slow reacting, needs to get up to operating temperature.

 

[tommie]

Where does this 3 hours come into the equation?
Wouldn`t the PEM be charging the li-ion in situ as and when required?

 

[anotherkiwi]

If you run out of hydrogen and run the 150 W buffer battery down to flat you are going to have to recharge the buffer battery back up to a certain level before taking off again. At 2 Amps it will take some time to charge back up presuming they are using standard 18650 cells in the buffer battery.

 

[danielrlee]

Nope, hydrogen has no place in the future of the EV. Anything that puts sole control of the power source in the hands of a third party is a no-no.

 

[Emo Rider]

View attachment 21983

Will the H-bike take over from the E-bike?!!

https://www.treehugger.com/bikes/hydrogen-fuel-cell-e-bike-takes-2-minutes-fill-and-has-60-mile-range.html

Playing devil's advocate here: Hydrogen, as well as petrol, are both highly flammable. The automotive industry has gone through great lengths to protect fuel tanks against leakage and fire in case of collisions. Knowing personally how mangled a bicycle can get, when struck and run over by a car, all I see here is a rolling bomb.

 

[Danidl]

Playing devil's advocate here: Hydrogen, as well as petrol, are both highly flammable. The automotive industry has gone through great lengths to protect fuel tanks against leakage and fire in case of collisions. Knowing personally how mangled a bicycle can get, when struck and run over by a car, all I see here is a rolling bomb.

. Not as significant ... the hydrogen will float off into the air being a lighter than air gas and disperse rapidly petrol would pool and The energy source remains concentrated. ..
The problem might be significant if there was a major collision of the tour we France hydrogen class in the eurotunnel...

 

[Danidl]

Nope, hydrogen has no place in the future of the EV. Anything that puts sole control of the power source in the hands of a third party is a no-no.

And electricity production is not?

 

[Danidl]

If you run out of hydrogen and run the 150 W buffer battery down to flat you are going to have to recharge the buffer battery back up to a certain level before taking off again. At 2 Amps it will take some time to charge back up presuming they are using standard 18650 cells in the buffer battery.[/QUOTE

It's almost a certainly that the cells are the standard 18650. But why would that battery pack not be amenable to standard mains charging. I would assume that draining the buffer battery would be a last resort. ...
I'm not still not convinced of the economic and weight viability of the concept.
The hydrogen bottle contains exotic mixture of materials needed to absorb hydrogen and hold it at a low pressure. This is ex pensive and is added weight. .. it's advantage over a battery is no wear out mechanism
There is the weight and cost of the PEM module
The weight of the buffer battery.
It is hard to see how it would compete with just a bigger battery...

 

[Emo Rider]

. Not as significant ... the hydrogen will float off into the air being a lighter than air gas and disperse rapidly petrol would pool and The energy source remains concentrated. ..
The problem might be significant if there was a major collision of the tour we France hydrogen class in the eurotunnel...

Your comparison of petrol to hydrogen is correct. However, if you were still entangled in said bike when the hydrogen ignited, you probably be unhurt by the flames, right? It just doesn't look safe to me. Use of hydrogen as a common fuel source for cars and now, apparently bikes, is not common for many reasons. Safety being the big one.

 

[Danidl]

Your comparison of petrol to hydrogen is correct. However, if you were still entangled in said bike when the hydrogen ignited, you probably be unhurt by the flames, right? It just doesn't look safe to me. Use of hydrogen as a common fuel source for cars and now, apparently bikes, is not common for many reasons. Safety being the big one.

No energy source is safe, hydrogen has the added problem that it's molecules are so small they can work their way through metals, embrittling them...
Hydrogen as a fuel has plenty of drawbacks , but the reason it has not yet been in use is that petroleum is still cheaper. The majority of industrial hydrogen produced is via a chemical reaction on petroleum by steam, so could not be cheaper. The underlying assumption of a hydrogen based economy rather than the current carbon based one is that it could be produced by electrolysis.

I could have expanded on my previous post. The technology used in those hydrogen bottles used in this bike, is that they are filled with an inert combination of materials. This material can absorb.. proper term is adsorb hydrogen into their matrix at around atmospheric pressure and they slowly release it as the pressure drops. If you ripped open these containers you would not have the whoosh or bang of say a bursting balloon more a gentle hissing... Hindleberg wouldn't happen.
The downside is that these carrier materials are expensive recipes, and provide weight. Were a steel bottle gas cylinder used instead, and it breached, then an explosive event would be more likely. The carrier materials, provide approx equivalent energy storage in the same volume, but are much lighter.
Hydrogen provides the highest energy density per gram of fuel, hence it's appeal as a rocket fuel but when the ancillaries of storage are added it loses its appeal to petroleum products.

 

[flecc]

Will the H-bike take over from the E-bike?!!

Considering the first one launched was an Aprilia seventeen years ago and there was another since, we may have to be very patient.
.

 

[Woosh]

so it takes 3hrs 2 mins to charge back up plus have to take it to a refuel depot ?

I don't know where you've got the 3 hrs from.
it only takes a couple of minutes to refill at the depot.

 

[Woosh]

If hydrogen fuel cell is allowed to be mounted to an e-bike, why then not replacing it with a simple internal combustion engine burning something else easier to source (eg achohol)?

 

[flecc]

I don't know where you've got the 3 hrs from.
it only takes a couple of minutes to refill at the depot.

Under one circumstance it takes a long time. See AK's post
.

 

[Emo Rider]

No energy source is safe, hydrogen has the added problem that it's molecules are so small they can work their way through metals, embrittling them...
Hydrogen as a fuel has plenty of drawbacks , but the reason it has not yet been in use is that petroleum is still cheaper. The majority of industrial hydrogen produced is via a chemical reaction on petroleum by steam, so could not be cheaper. The underlying assumption of a hydrogen based economy rather than the current carbon based one is that it could be produced by electrolysis.

I could have expanded on my previous post. The technology used in those hydrogen bottles used in this bike, is that they are filled with an inert combination of materials. This material can absorb.. proper term is adsorb hydrogen into their matrix at around atmospheric pressure and they slowly release it as the pressure drops. If you ripped open these containers you would not have the whoosh or bang of say a bursting balloon more a gentle hissing... Hindleberg wouldn't happen.
The downside is that these carrier materials are expensive recipes, and provide weight. Were a steel bottle gas cylinder used instead, and it breached, then an explosive event would be more likely. The carrier materials, provide approx equivalent energy storage in the same volume, but are much lighter.
Hydrogen provides the highest energy density per gram of fuel, hence it's appeal as a rocket fuel but when the ancillaries of storage are added it loses its appeal to petroleum products.

It is amazing what a little fact based reading can do for yourself. I have, what is described to be had by many, "the Hindenburg impression" about hydrogen. You are correct about modern storage tanks being tough and that the gas is held in a much different way than steel pressurized containers. However, proponents of hyrogen as a fuel speak correctly about the risks of leakage but there is little about a rupture in event of an accident. Gasoline fires can be put down quickly as fire departments are equipped to deal with them. In California, where hydrogen cars are presently in use, a truck caught fire in 2014 and it took all the resourses of the Los Angeles County fire department 7 hours to knock it down.

Today it is probably quite safe but I for one is going to continue with what I know. It is going to take a lot of much needed education to the consumer to make this meritorious concept a reality