Could this be the future?

[Emo Rider]

If hydrogen fuel cell is allowed to be mounted to an e-bike, why then not replacing it with a simple internal combustion engine burning something else easier to source (eg achohol)?

Achohol!? Like street drinkers need another reason to steal your bike

 

[Woosh]

Under one circumstance it takes a long time. See AK's post
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there is no need for that. As soon as the PEM is charged, it will raise the battery's voltage above the LVC and the bike can be ridden again.

 

[Emo Rider]

If hydrogen fuel cell is allowed to be mounted to an e-bike, why then not replacing it with a simple internal combustion engine burning something else easier to source (eg achohol)?

Actually achohol is not a particularly safe alternative either as it produces no visible flame when it burns.

 

[flecc]

there is no need for that. As soon as the PEM is charged, it will raise the battery's voltage above the LVC and the bike can be ridden again.

I honestly don't know either way, knowing nothing of the system, just suggesting AK had an answer.
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[Danidl]

If hydrogen fuel cell is allowed to be mounted to an e-bike, why then not replacing it with a simple internal combustion engine burning something else easier to source (eg achohol)?

That is a fair question. But is answered by the legal definition of heat engines Flecc and I explored it some time ago in the context of a honda generator mounted on the carrier continually charging a battery. His claim essentially was that it could be viewed as production without a licence on the highway.
A more interesting variant would be a methanol powered fuel cell rather than hydrogen. It would have a much higher fuel energy density than hydrogen being a liquid fuel, the fuel is readily available in every hardware or camping shop

 

[danielrlee]

And electricity production is not?

No, electricity can be micro generated by each and every one of us with a choice of renewables nowadays. Energy freedom should be our number one goal with the opportunity we currently have to alter our supply from non-renewables.

 

[anotherkiwi]

there is no need for that. As soon as the PEM is charged, it will raise the battery's voltage above the LVC and the bike can be ridden again.

This thing is as heavy as a tank, the weight was published in the local newspaper and from memory was 28 kg(?). Add in the bags full of mail you are going to need more than 5.4 Ah of hydrogen + 5.4 Ah of buffer battery to get any range. We all know what it is like riding with a battery just above LVC...

 

[tommie]

Add in the bags full of mail you are going to need more than 5.4 Ah of hydrogen

Bags full of mail?? Why?? We`re not all postmen,

more info here.. https://www.designboom.com/technology/pragma-industries-alpha-hydrogen-bicycle-03-2017/

see they use a Brose motor.

 

[anotherkiwi]

They are only selling to the post office for the moment.

 

[gwing]

This thing is as heavy as a tank, the weight was published in the local newspaper and from memory was 28 kg(?). Add in the bags full of mail you are going to need more than 5.4 Ah of hydrogen + 5.4 Ah of buffer battery to get any range. We all know what it is like riding with a battery just above LVC...

Despite the negative opinions I can see that this *might* be ideal for the postie use case. The great attraction of the hydrogen fuel is that you can instantly recharge it, so deliver a bag of mail, return to base to pick up another bag and top up the hydrogen seems that it might be a promising model. It wouldn't suit the type of riding I do at all but that's not the point ...

 

[danielrlee]

The great attraction of the hydrogen fuel is that you can instantly recharge it, so deliver a bag of mail, return to base to pick up another bag and top up the hydrogen seems that it might be a promising model.

With the right type of battery, you can recharge in 5-6 minutes, so hydrogen is not unique in that sense.

EDIT: Also, the fuel cell isn't powerful enough to power the bike, but only charge the (tiny) battery. IMO, this solution creates more problems than it solves.

 

[Danidl]

No, electricity can be micro generated by each and every one of us with a choice of renewables nowadays. Energy freedom should be our number one goal with the opportunity we currently have to alter our supply from non-renewables.

At one level you are singing to the choir, but not many are in a position to do so.. if you are in a flat in a city, where are you going to site your little wind turbine or place your solar panel.? Also if you use your bike to commute, it won't be where it's at to charge... Realistically and economically solar energy and particularly wind energy favours a grid approach. Whereas it is feasible to stick 5 sq metres of solar panel on any roof, and get a peak 1 kw or maybe 3 kwhrs per day, wind does not scale that way... In wind power collection increases as the square of the radius of the blades , and as the cube of the wind speed. So for a given amount of turbine material, it is better to make one big turbine and place it in the windest place...

 

[flecc]

They are only selling to the post office for the moment.

Despite the negative opinions I can see that this *might* be ideal for the postie use case.

Not in Britain though, our Royal Mail were considering a fleet of 16,000 e-bikes a short while ago, but after preliminary investigation dropped the idea and have committed to other solutions since.

Germany may be very receptive, already using a large fleet of Heinzmann powered purpose designed heavy duty e-bikes. With their wide front stand they're extremely heavy though and I can't begin to imagine the total weight when all front and rear large capacity carriers in the photo below are filled.

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[tommie]

"He said Royal Mail also looked at e-bikes, though above a certain weight an e-bike falls into the motorbike category."

Really?

 

[flecc]

"He said Royal Mail also looked at e-bikes, though above a certain weight an e-bike falls into the motorbike category."

Really?

It did before 6th April 2015 when the EAPC law was amended.

Up until then pedelecs were limited to a maximum weight of 40 kilos and e-trikes to 60 kilos. The amendment removed all weight limits.

I bet that huge German e-post bike weighs over 40 kilos, plenty of normal e-bikes were that in the SLA battery days and the heavy construction and additional equipment will easily bring it past that despite a lithium battery.
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[Danidl]

Not in Britain though, our Royal Mail were considering a fleet of 16,000 e-bikes a short while ago, but after preliminary investigation dropped the idea and have committed to other solutions since.

Germany may be very receptive, already using a large fleet of Heinzmann powered purpose designed heavy duty e-bikes. With their wide front stand they're extremely heavy though and I can't begin to imagine the total weight when all front and rear large capacity carriers in the photo below are filled.

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The French postal service around the village where I have a place use custom made eBikes , Not quite as massive as your picture , but do I think have a smaller Diameter front wheel and a dual legged stand.

 

[flecc]

The French postal service around the village where I have a place use custom made eBikes , Not quite as massive as your picture , but do I think have a smaller Diameter front wheel and a dual legged stand.

Indeed, I've seen a photo of those and unlike the German model don't look like they need Arnold Swarzenegger helping the motor.
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[anotherkiwi]

Despite the negative opinions I can see that this *might* be ideal for the postie use case. The great attraction of the hydrogen fuel is that you can instantly recharge it, so deliver a bag of mail, return to base to pick up another bag and top up the hydrogen seems that it might be a promising model. It wouldn't suit the type of riding I do at all but that's not the point ...

You may disagree but my comment on claimed range for given power was not negative, it was realistic. If you want negative comments about hydrogen cell EVs I do have a heap of those on stock.

The fact is that you can only "instantly recharge" the hydrogen, not the battery.

Mail runs don't work like that, the postman only leaves the post office once a day.

 

[gwing]

This thing is as heavy as a tank, the weight was published in the local newspaper and from memory was 28 kg(?). Add in the bags full of mail you are going to need more than 5.4 Ah of hydrogen + 5.4 Ah of buffer battery to get any range. We all know what it is like riding with a battery just above LVC...

Where do those 5.4ah numbers come from? In the original linked article I see 150 Wh@36V for the battery and 2 litres of hydrogen. Is there some formula that translates 2 litres to 5.4Ah?

 

[anotherkiwi]

150 Wh / 36 V = 4.16 Ah sorry I was probably doing something else when I typed that in

The hydrogen was given as 150 W + 150 W buffer battery = 300 W