Convert a old lady pashley for hills

[Moon + Stick]

Hi, newbie almost definitely asking for the moon on a stick here (humor me, hormones). Sorry for the waffling post.

I just moved to a a hilly area of London and can no longer ride my bike (fixie) so I'm having to use public transport to get around . I'm pregnant (6 months) so can't exert myself so much (the hill I live on is killer anyway) and the bump is now in the way of the road bike riding position. The bike I rode before that is a rusty POS that I grew to love and is now waiting to be repaired/restored. The rusty POS is a steel loop frame (with the obligatory from rack/basket) and I love this shape of bike, I find it so comfy and practical.

Now that I need another bike (n+1 ) I'd really like a loop frame again with a motor to help me drag myself up the hill to get home. I had a little look around online but I'm not convinced I can find one with enough oomf to do it that's affordable (plus I don't like the look of most of them, yes looks matter). So, I've sort of come to the conclusion that I'll be best served DIYing my self a bike.

I was thinking of getting a Pashley ladies bike (3 or 5 or 8 speed, hub brakes not rod) off eBay and putting a mid drive motor (Bafang BBS01?) on it with a battery (not sure on the spec?) on the rear rack.

I've attached the profile and some info (from woosh bikes online tool) for my current - would be - commute, while on maternity leave I probably won't be going that far very often but wherever I go I have to deal with coming back up that hill. Is that set up going to be able to help me (50kg pre baby) ride a nice looking bike (~20kg), eventually with a baby in a rear seat (up to ~22kg), up the hill (sign posted as 12%) home?

Thanks

 

[sjpt]

With a loop frame you will almost certainly need the battery on the rear rack. This may well be awkward with a child seat; both fitting and weight balance.

We've got a tandem with Woosh's weakest kit (XF07 front hub motor) and it certainly helps us get up 12% hills, BUT (a) still leaves us with quite a bit of effort to put in, and (b) that is with a low gear you probably won't have on the Pashley.

Woosh suggested the bigger SWF02 but it wasn't available at the time in correct wheel size.

 

[Woosh]

could you post a picture of the donor bike?
that'll help to figure out what would work best.
battery should not be a problem, I have rack batteries in 13AH, 15AH and 17AH.

 

[Moon + Stick]

I don't have a donor yet but I'm watching these on ebay: Pashley Princess Sovereign, Pashley Princess Classic or Pashley Britannia.

I sort of ruled out hub drive because of the hub brakes, not sure I could change them to calliper brakes... though I have them on my POS bike so I might be able to.

I'm not normally unfit, in much earlier pregnancy I cycled the route in the OP minus the last mile on my steel framed fixie (had to stop as was going to die, sick + lightheaded + exercise = not good).

 

[dwvl]

Are Halfords still doing 48 hour free trials of a Pendleton? This would at least give you a feel for how much assistance a "low end" ebike provides up your hill. I'd really recommend that - first hand experience trumps theoretical research in matters like this, I think.

 

[Moon + Stick]

They are still doing the 48hr trials in limited stores and 30mins in other stores.

I live just a slightly annoying distance from the stores, the nearest 48hr store is about 15 miles (I could ride that far... just feeling lazy atm) away and the nearest 30mins store is about 5 miles (I don’t think I could make it out and back in that time, might see if I can get them to be flexible with the time though)

 

[Woosh]

I don't have a donor yet but I'm watching these on ebay: Pashley Princess Sovereign, Pashley Princess Classic or Pashley Britannia.

I sort of ruled out hub drive because of the hub brakes, not sure I could change them to calliper brakes... though I have them on my POS bike so I might be able to.

if you want to go for a crank drive kit, then it is fairly straightforward but you will probably lose the fully enclosed chain cover. That problem may be sorted out by fitting a universal guard over the top section of the chain.
For all three Pashley Princesses, you will need a rear rack battery, so the old rack will have to be replaced with a new rack to house the battery.
Other than that, the fitting is straightforward. I can fit it for you if you wish, that will take about 2 hours.
The BBS01B comes with pedal assist and full throttle. Cost: £743.

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/cart/#/product/uid-195-bbs01b-15ahrack/bbs01b-cd-kit-with-15ah-36v-rack-battery

 

[Trevormonty]

If long term plan is fit a child seat, I'd look new factory middrive bikes
ideally with frame battery and hub gears. Most of these bikes use excellent hydraulic magura rim brakes.

Gazelle do excellent bikes with enclosed chain guards, rack batteries.
Also check out Gepida Reptila 900 (26") & 1000(28" wheels), Raleigh Motus,

Ortler Wien E-City Bike 7-speed black £1369.

Kalkhoff
Agattu B7R Move Comfort E-City Bike £2000.

Cube elly range.

The prices vary depending on drive and battery size 300wh-500wh. Bosch new Active line 40nm and Activeline plus 50nm, shimano Steps e6000 50nm. The 50nm motors are definitely better climbers especially with heavy load. 300wh battery is fine for city riding but to small for touring or long sunday rides.

You should test ride a few bikes and drive systems before deciding which path to take, kit or factory, middrive or hub.

 

[Moon + Stick]

I spoke to my local Halfords, they said I can test ride an eBike on their compound out the back while someone watched (I think they've had problems with theft in the past), so not helpful in testing it IRL conditions.

Woosh, I figured the pashley would loose its chain guard because of the huge chain ring. Is it possible to get a much smaller chainring so its not so hard start peddling (especially on hills), or does a throttle help with this?
I think between me, my BF and my dad we could fit the kit (we all cycle and dad has ALL the tools ). How much would you charge to fit the kit?

Trevor, thanks for the recommendations but a lot of those are too expensive. Gazelle makes some nice looking bikes but are they up to the task given how flat holland is? The Ortler one is a decent price just not very pretty.

 

[Woosh]

Woosh, I figured the pashley would loose its chain guard because of the huge chain ring. Is it possible to get a much smaller chainring so its not so hard start peddling (especially on hills), or does a throttle help with this?
I think between me, my BF and my dad we could fit the kit (we all cycle and dad has ALL the tools ). How much would you charge to fit the kit?

yes, it's possible to fit smaller rings but the problem with retaining the chainguard is still not solved You need to have space around the ring and the two front anchor points. Difficult to solve without detailed pictures.
Re pedaling on hills: that's the least worry. The motor is strong and you can levarage on the gears.
BBS kits are dead easy to fit, If you can whip out the bottom bracket, you are half way there. Slot the motor in, tighten the two M33 nuts, you can more or less test the bike.
If you want me to fit the kits, £65 for 1, £110 for two. Time wise, allow 2 1/2 hours for 1, 3 1/2 hours for 2..

 

[Moon + Stick]

I do so hate public transport.

I've now got a donor bike (Pashley Princess Sovereign 5 speed) and want to get a BBS01 250w mid drive kit for it. I'll diy the installation.

I'm not certain what battery size I need, either 13AH or 15AH I think. Looking at the woosh predictor on a mid drive with 15AH I'd have 50-ish % left in the battery if I were to ride from home to oxford street (for shopping, which is probably about as far as I'd need to ride and I couldn't charge it while out, my current commute is in the same direction just not as far).

I took the chain case off and so long as the bafang chain ring fits in the case I think I can modify the case to allow to the fittings, otherwise I'll try a universal one.

 

[Woosh]

go for the highest capacity you can.
We have 13AH, 15AH and 17AH in both rack mount and downtube mount.
The 17AH battery costs £50 more than the 15AH battery which costs £50 more than the 13AH battery.

 

[minexplorer]

View attachment 26800 View attachment 26799 View attachment 26798 View attachment 26797
I do so hate public transport.

I've now got a donor bike (Pashley Princess Sovereign 5 speed) and want to get a BBS01 250w mid drive kit for it. I'll diy the installation.

I'm not certain what battery size I need, either 13AH or 15AH I think. Looking at the woosh predictor on a mid drive with 15AH I'd have 50-ish % left in the battery if I were to ride from home to oxford street (for shopping, which is probably about as far as I'd need to ride and I couldn't charge it while out, my current commute is in the same direction just not as far).

I took the chain case off and so long as the bafang chain ring fits in the case I think I can modify the case to allow to the fittings, otherwise I'll try a universal one.

ive got a 350w version of the bbs01b.I can tell you from personal experience a uk street legal 250w will dissapoint your expectations,the first hill you hit.Youre better off being dishonest and getting something with more power.You sound from your post like u are going to need it.

Its the old saying,buy cheap buy twice.A more powerful motor has the option of being used at a lower power level if required.A low power motor doesnt have the reverse option. Spend the money on the more powerfull bbs02 in 500w or 750w or if u can afford it,the incomparable bbshd with a 52volt battery like i did.

 

[Warwick]

Although it's a heavy machine, I think a 250W kit will be fine, as long as you don't intend breaking any speed records. Seeing as you are normally quite fit, you should be OK with that set up, IMHO.

 

[minexplorer]

Although it's a heavy machine, I think a 250W kit will be fine, as long as you don't intend breaking any speed records. Seeing as you are normally quite fit, you should be OK with that set up, IMHO.

250w is still very minimal assistance .I found the 350w just about ok on hills .But 250w is more work than id want from a electric bike experience . It should put a big grin on your face ,not be a grind still going up hills. Trust our nanny state to take an awesome invention and ham string it with a low power restriction law.

 

[Woosh]

250w is still very minimal assistance

the BBS01 kit is about as powerful as the Bosch ActiveLine Plus or Shimano E6000 series.

36V controllers rating:

15A for up to 14 st (comparable to Bosch ActiveLine)
17A for up to 20 st (comparable to Bosch CX)
20A for over 20 st (comparable to Yamaha PW-X)

They are the power levels that most of my customers are happy to climb hills with.

 

[Warwick]

Seeing as the Pashley has hub gears (Sturmey Archer?), you can easily tweak the gearing by having a larger rear sprocket fitted. You might need a new chain to allow that, but that needn't be expensive. Once you feel comfortable with the new gearing, you can always refit the original sprocket, once fitness allows. A rear sprocket should be £2-3 and a chain from £5 upwards.

Lowered gearing will help you up any hills, but you'll spin out sooner on faster sections.

 

[Moon + Stick]

I think I'll get a 15ah battery.

I'd rather stay legal and it might be nice to still get some exercise. I don't have a problem with not going fast, I'm not the fastest rider (my dad sets the bar pretty high there) but certainly not slow. I'd sort out my scooter if I was desperate for speed... pretty much all the roads around me are 20mph though.

A new chain was already on my list because the current one won't accommodate the bigger front ring. The rear hub is a Sturmey Archer X-RD5(W), didn't think of changing the rear sprocket, not sure what ones would fit it but they are cheap parts so I could try it.

Woosh, btw, on the predictor map on your website there's an error and its in dev mode because you're missing API keys or maybe there's a problem with billing

 

[Warwick]

Sheldon Brown's site has a gear ratio calculator here: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

The main thing to watch out for is torque ratios. Basically, if you have a smaller front chainring allied to a larger rear one, you can put too much force into the rear hub and damage it. Ideally, the direct drive gear ratio in your hub should be around 60" - maybe less - so that you get a good useable spread of gears (assuming direct drive isn't either the uppermost or lowest gear), but that is guidance for an unpowered bike, so it could be raised a few inches.

So, for example, a 48t front chainring and an 18t rear sprocket will give you a ratio spread of
48.3
57.2
72.5
91.8
108.7

I think I'd want a lower bottom gear, but that's just me...

 

[Woosh]

Woosh, btw, on the predictor map on your website there's an error and its in dev mode because you're missing API keys or maybe there's a problem with billing

I installed a new key last week. When did you try to use it?