Conversion costs

[AndyBike]

To date I have not felt the need for stronger brakes, my son's new Carrera Vulcan with disk brakes doesn't feel that much stronger at braking, it's not about the money...

I think you'll agree that some things are better or more suitable than others, and that goes for brakes as with any component on the bike.

The Carrera Vulcan is what is best described as a low end bicycle. Not cheapo catalog special, but low priced none the less. Retails at about £450
(And probably find its wholesale price is well under 200)

The brakes on it retail at 50 quid for an entire bikes worth inc the rotors. Thats not a lot when you think that its your life thats at stake.

 

[chris667]

350W/400W so you could buy a street legal ebike that is capable in normal use of say 20-22mph

See, it's not really about you. It is about everyone else.

A bike that can do 22mph is so much faster than an unpowered bike it means that they can't really share infrastructure. And people will ride on pavements, the wrong way up one way streets, run lights and all the other things casual cyclists tend to do. I'm not saying you would do that, but if that became the new standard speed for ebikes it would be a problem because lots of other people would do that.

Yeah, you can average 22mph on a serious road bike but that's a different class of cyclist altogether. They don't ride like fools, as a rule. Not outside of competiton anyway.

Cycle lanes and pedestrian tracks used by cyclists are only safe for everyone to use if all the people using them don't feel intimidated.

15.5mph is absolutely fair and on the distances you're going to cover for most bike journeys won't even make that much difference in journey time.

I'm all for the speed limit we have now.

 

[portals]

I think you'll agree that some things are better or more suitable than others, and that goes for brakes as with any component on the bike.

The Carrera Vulcan is what is best described as a low end bicycle. Not cheapo catalog special, but low priced none the less. Retails at about £450
(And probably find its wholesale price is well under 200)

For what it is I quite like it and my son loves it and is now using it for school run, it's also quite light for what it is. Halfords must've punted *huge* numbers of that bike at Christmas, it was I think £320 for the 'custom' white version in their Black Friday sales that was on for months...as opposed to £400+ for the regular version...lol.

The brakes on it retail at 50 quid for an entire bikes worth inc the rotors. Thats not a lot when you think that its your life thats at stake.

You're going to tell me that I also need to wear a helmet next.....!!??

 

[portals]

I made what I think is a suggestion that is not unreasonable, for example in Denmark (and other EUs) they allow 28mph in bike lanes, you don't think the Danish (apart from maybe the Dutch), are way ahead in terms of cycling culture/knowledge than UK?

See, it's not really about you. It is about everyone else.

That type of a response usually means you want it to be about you.

A bike that can do 22mph is so much faster than an unpowered bike it means that they can't really share infrastructure.

Well yes, approx 6mph...call the cops...

What rubbish, do some research and reading and next time you're out open your eyes...see above post, lycras are biggest danger where I live.

And people will ride on pavements, the wrong way up one way streets, run lights and all the other things cyclists do. I'm not saying you would do that, but if that became the new standard speed for ebikes it would be a problem because lots of other people would do that.

Fair enough, I must admit that I was a model old-school cyclist and never ever 'rode on pavements, wrong way up one way streets, run lights and all the other things cyclists'do'' until I converted that old donk bike in to a big ****-you 1500W 30+mph beast that makes now me exhibit that type of behaviour. Then it ran away.

Cycle lanes and pedestrian tracks used by cyclists are only safe for everyone to use if all the people using them don't feel intimidated.

Are you roller skater?

 

[chris667]

That type of a response usually means you want it to be about you.

Not at all. I'm talking about everyone, not just me or you.

Still, it hardly matters what you think or I think.

The law is the law, whether you get your knickers in a twist about it or not.

 

[Az.]

A lot of the issues with the faster potentially illegal ebikes could be somewhat mitigated if the anaemic 250W pedelec 'law' was raised to say 350W/400W so you could buy a street legal ebike that is capable in normal use of say 20-22mph.

You confuse 250W rated power limit with speed limit. At this moment you can buy perfectly legal 250W e-bike capable to ride at 20-30mph. It is 15.5mph limit that restricts maximum assisted speed.

You can also buy a speed pedelec and legally travel at speeds above 15.5mph.

 

[guerney]

A lot of the issues with the faster potentially illegal ebikes could be somewhat mitigated if the anaemic 250W pedelec 'law' was raised to say 350W/400W so you could buy a street legal ebike that is capable in normal use of say 20-22mph. For me this is the sweet spot on decent main roads in good conditions and would sway me (and possibly many others), to buy it over a more powerful dinner plate and also give excellent range.

Given the speeds the lycras cycle about in busy streets here...easily 20+mph...would that really be madness, increasing the legal power by 1/3rd...?

20-22mph was my normal speed before I discovered it was illegal - easy to attain and maintain on my daft looking but legal 20" wheeled folding Dahon "250W" mid-drive 36V BBS01B conversion, even though the controller's current limit was only 15A. I really miss it, felt like I was Superman flying. Slow moving traffic didn't seem to mind my being directly in front pedalling hard at about 24mph.

Since restriction, I'm very often overtaken by lycra travelling at those speeds and faster... but now that my controller's current limit has been increased to 18A, I'm wondering how much closer to no-load speed I'd get if de-restricted - I'm sure there's enough torque to increase chainwheel from 52T (was 53T before conversion) to 58T or perhaps 60T. If I were young and bonkers, I would have done so already.

 

[AndyBike]

You're going to tell me that I also need to wear a helmet next.....!!??

Pottering along the road on a bicycle isnt exactly a dangerous thing to do. Maybe riding offroad where there are rocks and trees and the like then its pretty much mandatory, but on the road I wouldnt say so.
In all honestly the chances are you'll get crushed to death under the wheels of a taxi or bus or truck, in which case the lid isnt going to do much to save you.

 

[flecc]

You guys.....

Of course no-one has ever gone over the handle bars using disc brakes....

Front hydraulic disk brake is too powerful on MTB — solutions?

I am thinking about disconnecting my front brake altogether because it's either on or it's off, and there's no in-betweens. As a result I've been over the handlebars about five times now and it's g...

bicycles.stackexchange.com

google it...etc. etc. etc.

If you don't know how to setup any type of bike brakes then potentially you're in trouble... ;-)

No-one is arguing rim brakes are 'better' (more efficient), than disc brakes, of course disc brakes should be better at braking given differences in SA, grip etc., however what I'm saying is that in my particular use case they are not required....pls get over it...

Well said. Tour de France riders hurtle down the stage slopes at up to 60mph but have to slow well down for the hairpin bends.

A thorough analysis of the 2020 Tour de France brake type use showed the following highlights:

11 stages were won by disc brake bikes, 10 stages by rim brake bikes, so the jury out on that.

The winner of the all important General Classification rode into Paris at the end with three of the winners jerseys. He had ridden every stage but one of the 21 with rim brakes.
.

 

[flecc]

A lot of the issues with the faster potentially illegal ebikes could be somewhat mitigated if the anaemic 250W pedelec 'law' was raised to say 350W/400W so you could buy a street legal ebike that is capable in normal use of say 20-22mph. For me this is the sweet spot on decent main roads in good conditions and would sway me (and possibly many others), to buy it over a more powerful dinner plate and also give excellent range.

Given the speeds the lycras cycle about in busy streets here...easily 20+mph...would that really be madness, increasing the legal power by 1/3rd...?

This is the one thing I part company on with you, because it misses the whole point of the assist law.

The Lycras you quote are generally relatively young, fit, good eyesight and with rapid reactions.

The bureauacracy free assistance law was intended to expand utility cycling to those who need help to cycle, who will predominantly be older or relatively unfit and often without all those optimal physical attributes.

It was absolutely not intended to enable the less fit to ride at the rapid speeds of the fittest and most able, which of course would be inherently dangerous. Hence the very sensible assist speed limit.
.

 

[saneagle]

If I had disk brakes on the same bike doesn't this mean I just skid sooner?

No. Look up the meaning of modulation.

What is brake modulation? - G-LOC Brakes

Brake modulation is the ability to precisely and accurately control the amount of clamping force on a disc with a

www.g-locbrakes.com

.

Rim brakes rapidly go out of adjustment because they wear fast. During braking, modulation is poor, and they either fade of grab during hard braking.

Cable disk brakes go out of adjustment because they wear fast. The correct adjustment is critical to their performance. Most riders don't know how to adjust them correctly. They fade during hard braking. Modulation is not as bad as rim brakes, but still a bit meh.

Hyrdraulic disc brakes have excellent modulation, never go out of adjustment and only fade during the most serious braking, depending on the quality of the brakes. The more you pay, the less they fade.

Anybody, who uses hydraulic brakes can immediately see the difference. It's massive.

 

[saneagle]

I admire your patience.

Thank you. I do my best to give sound advice. I am persistent because I hiope it will save people from serious injury and death.

i don't care if people don't want to take my advice, but the problem is that other people read these forums looking for ideas and advice, and they never post. When people come up with risky solutions, it is therefore important to highlight the risks, but stupid people bring up irrelevant stuff, like what happens in the Tour de France, on the lightest bikes ridden by guys that weigh half as much as us and teams of mechanics to make perfect adjustments every time they stop, to try to justify people risking such injuries. I've no idea why they would want to do that. My only goal is to make the risks clear to everyone so that people can choose the best solution for themselves. If people like me don't push back, these anonymous readers might get the idea to copy people doing risky things or accept daft advice.

 

[flecc]

stupid people bring up irrelevant stuff, like what happens in the Tour de France, on the lightest bikes ridden by guys that weigh half as much as us

Weigh half as much at up to four times the speed, very relevant.

I fully agree that in general use disc brakes are far superior to rim brakes. but I disagree with stupid people who constantly give the impression that that rim brakes are inadequate at all but the lowest speeds.

They are perfectly ok at the common lycra's speeds, including on heavier pedelecs, and although inferior to hydraulic disc brakes, are far superior to the various types of cycle hub brakes still in common use.
.

 

[guerney]

If you lock the front wheel, you go over the handlebars. That's what happens when rim brakes grab.

I can stop fast enough, skidding the rear wheel first, then activating the front - the family friend who had taught me how to ride a bike died recently, but many years before he died, I was taught to always use the back brake first to prevent that happening - I do it instinctively, because I've only ever used rim brakes and don't have the option for disc on either of my bikes. I've only ever gone over the handlebars after my bike collided with something. My new wheel has arrived just in time, and of course it'll need truing, they always do. Might finally buy a truing stand or try to make one. Forumites of a sensitive disposition may wish to avoid looking at the second and third photos of the old rim.

 

[Cadence]

I can stop fast enough, skidding the rear wheel first, then activating the front - the family friend who had taught me how to ride a bike died recently, but many years before he died, I was taught to always use the back brake first to prevent that happening - I do it instinctively, because I've only ever used rim brakes and don't have the option for disc on either of my bikes. I've only ever gone over the handlebars after my bike collided with something.

I used to do the same, then I started reading articles by the late, great Sheldon Brown.
He advocates using the front brake only as, if modulated correctly, it brings the bike to a stop quicker and safer. Using the back brake only can cause "fish tailing", particularly if steering around a bend. I had my doubts about this until I did a few practice runs and found that he is correct.:-
Braking and Turning Your Bicycle (sheldonbrown.com)
All three of my conversions have rim brakes, but if I was starting afresh I would definitely look for a hydraulic-braked bike. My V-brakes are perfectly fine for the type of leisure cycling that I do but I have to keep them well-adjusted and change the pads quite frequently.

 

[portals]

I started reading articles by the late, great Sheldon Brown.

Top bloke, I used his 'cold set' method using a baseball bat to widen the dropouts on my build so the rear hub would fit. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Quite an interesting read re using mainly front wheel brakes, I will mess with what he states when next out on ebike.

 

[Brik]

Look up the meaning of modulation.

Anybody, who uses hydraulic brakes can immediately see the difference. It's massive.

I don't need to look up the meaning of that word, I ain't that stoopid.
I spent 13 years as a self employed mobile mechanic, every Saturday I used to work with my MOT man moving different cars around, funnily enough I was able to do this without either driving off the end of the ramp or skidding to a halt.
As for push bikes I currently have a Ridgeback hybrid for sale that has disk brakes and I can see and feel the difference, all I'm saying is that rim brakes are fine (for me) and as long as they are kept clean and adjusted they will lock up a wheel if needed.

 

[Brik]

Forumites of a sensitive disposition may wish to avoid looking at the second and third photos of the old rim.

View attachment 56177

View attachment 56178

Nothing wrong with that Dude, it has loads of life left on it. (That's a joke by the way, sarcasm does count as humour).

Here is my worn out rear wheel, purchased new in December 2022. I'm looking for a replacement that is a bit wider than the current 19 m.m.

 

[saneagle]

I can stop fast enough, skidding the rear wheel first, then activating the front - the family friend who had taught me how to ride a bike died recently, but many years before he died, I was taught to always use the back brake first to prevent that happening

That's because the front rim brake might grab and send you over the handlebars, and you cannot brake fast enough using that method. It's completely the wrong way to brake efficiently if you have decent brakes. Nobody, who knows how to ride a motorbike, would do that. For efficient braking you need to transfer weight onto a tyre to increase the coefficient of friction. You can't do that with the back brake, which is why it skids so easily. In fact, the torque from the back brake transfers weight to the front wheel, which reduces the friction at the back and makes it skid. The idea is to put weight on the front wheel by applying the front brake either slightly first or at the same time as the back one. That's why brakes with good modulation are so important and rim brakes can't be recommended. Without modulation, that becomes more dangerous.

Note that much of the online advice about braking on a bicycle is out of date because it's in the frame of reference of grabby rim brakes.

 

[Az.]

I witnessed a slow speed accident today at Lidl car park. Driver of a van was reversing and didn't notice a cyclist. Cyclist tried to stop, but lost control on wet surface and fell while driver kept on reversing. Luckily only bike ended up under wheels.

Good brakes are critical. A few inches might be a difference between life and death.