Conversion costs

[AndyBike]

I disagree re rims brakes, cruising at a comfortable 22-24mph they stop me in no time and I've never had any concerns about them or their safety. YMMV.

So whats your emergency stop stopping distance then ?. Not a gentle braking in general use where you have time to apply the brakes far back from wherever it is, I mean the ones where you need to grab the levers and squeeze as hard as you can.
Any brake will stop you, but a true test is the emergency stop test.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I disagree that a 750w mid drive won't do well over 30mph with out the aid of gravity.

BBS02 ? When I tried out a max speed test on my BBS02 (rated power 750w) I can get over 30mph with a full battery on max assist (48v nominal *25 amps) - 48/11 gearing 29 inch wheels. Not sure I could have kept that up for a prolonged period of time though

 

[peterjd]

Good general advice for what seems to be the requirement in this case. But don't dismiss simple conversions of old steel frame bikes with good quality rim brakes if the objective is, like me, to compensate for ageing body rather than going faster. I'm enjoying my converted lightweight steel touring bike with such a conversion with similiar constraints on my riding (such as downhill) as I used to exercise when touring. Peter

 

[saneagle]

BBS02 ? When I tried out a max speed test on my BBS02 (rated power 750w) I can get over 30mph with a full battery on max assist (48v nominal *25 amps) - 48/11 gearing 29 inch wheels. Not sure I could have kept that up for a prolonged period of time though

Yes, there's a fifference between reaching 30 mph and riding at 30 mph.

 

[Brik]

It won't after you wake up from your dream.

I pray I never wake up, don't think I'm mentally strong enough to cope with reality.

 

[FastFreddy2]

I pray I never wake up, don't think I'm mentally strong enough to cope with reality.

I'm the same. The world is a much better place in my little bubble.

I agree the use of disc brakes over rim brakes. I won't use rim brakes on a non-motorised bike, despite half the worlds bicycles still using them. Apart from anything else like maintenance, wear on rims.... The potential difference between wet stopping with rim brakes and dry stopping is enough to indicate 30mph stopping in the wet would not be a wise thing to try, even if the previous attempts felt like they were successful.

Wheel rims run fairly close to the road, where oil and other contaminates reside. A bit of spilled diesel or oil drips from HGV's or PSV's can make rim brakes ornaments. A set of disc wheels, rotors, and mechanical calipers that can be used with cable levers, will cost the prudent buyer a tad over £100 if bought new. Why would anyone skimp on that sort of investment, that could ensure a longer life, especially if it were their own? As I've linked before, whole bikes in good nick with front/rear discs can be had for less than £100.

Reading that someone thinks riding a bicycle at 30 mph with rim brakes for stopping is a recommendation I think borders on reckless. I don't support our increasingly "woke" culture where everyone must be treated with the expectation they have the sensibility of a 5 year old, but this seems to me to be at the other end of the scale. As a motorbike rider, I'm only too aware of how inconsiderate, or 'blind' 4 wheeled and commercial drivers are, of two wheeled riders whether motorised or not.

 

[chris667]

Other people have told you about the law and the danger you're putting yourself into riding a motorbike without adequate brakes, suspension or safety gear, so I'll leave that up to you. You're an adult.

These are three other things you need to think about though, so you can make an informed choice.

I think this idea of "keeping up with traffic" is flawed. Car drivers aren't used to bikes going much faster than 20 mph and will misjudge your speed and do stupid things.

I would second this. Motorists don't expect a bike to keep up with traffic and will react differently to you if it does, if they notice what speed you're doing in the first place.

I have always been of the school of thought that with motorbikes, a 500 is safer than a 125. Why? Because the bad drivers don't care about the speed limit, so you need something with enough guts to get you out of the way of idiots!

The other point that has been alluded to already is insurance. Not theft insurance, third party liability insurance. If you own a house and cause an accident riding this bike don't expect to have any sort of cover. You are describing an unlicensed, uninsured motorcycle.

Third, police are now seizing bikes that are obviously not road legal.

So, make up your own mind. But please think about these before you make a purchase.

A 250w ebike with the correct pedelec top speed of 15.5mph assisted is a great thing and a good one is better than almost all of those dinnerplate hub ebikes that the police are now starting to sieze. All the advantages of a bike (no helmet, license and insurance necessary) with none of the disadvantages.

 

[Brik]

Reading that someone thinks riding a bicycle at 30 mph with rim brakes for stopping is a recommendation I think borders on reckless.

I'm not recommending any body do anything they don't feel comfortable with.
And I'm not saying rim brakes are better than disk brakes, but.
If well adjusted and maintained rim brakes will provide enough force to lock up a wheel. If I had disk brakes on the same bike doesn't this mean I just skid sooner?

 

[portals]

So whats your emergency stop stopping distance then ?. Not a gentle braking in general use where you have time to apply the brakes far back from wherever it is, I mean the ones where you need to grab the levers and squeeze as hard as you can.
Any brake will stop you, but a true test is the emergency stop test.

Good question, no idea, never measured an 'emergency stop' on my conversion with rim brakes.

I drive to suit the conditions and don't take the bike out in the wet, so far I haven't ever had to do an emergency stop, long may that continue.

 

[portals]

I agree the use of disc brakes over rim brakes. I won't use rim brakes on a non-motorised bike, despite half the worlds bicycles still using them. Apart from anything else like maintenance, wear on rims.... The potential difference between wet stopping with rim brakes and dry stopping is enough to indicate 30mph stopping in the wet would not be a wise thing to try, even if the previous attempts felt like they were successful.

I'm a casual ebike user riding mainly for enjoyment and sometimes to go to the pub.

I've never taken bike out in wet and only been caught once in a shower when 5mins from home, tbh didn't really notice any degradation on rim braking but then wasn't really looking for it.

I agree riding at 30mph is fool hardy apart from extenuating circumstances, 22mph cruising is perfect for me unless it's in to strong wind.

Wheel rims run fairly close to the road, where oil and other contaminates reside. A bit of spilled diesel or oil drips from HGV's or PSV's can make rim brakes ornaments. A set of disc wheels, rotors, and mechanical calipers that can be used with cable levers, will cost the prudent buyer a tad over £100 if bought new. Why would anyone skimp on that sort of investment, that could ensure a longer life, especially if it were their own? As I've linked before, whole bikes in good nick with front/rear discs can be had for less than £100.

To date I have not felt the need for stronger brakes, my son's new Carrera Vulcan with disk brakes doesn't feel that much stronger at braking, it's not about the money...

Road contaminates in spray like oil will also affect disc brakes?

Reading that someone thinks riding a bicycle at 30 mph with rim brakes for stopping is a recommendation I think borders on reckless. I don't support our increasingly "woke" culture where everyone must be treated with the expectation they have the sensibility of a 5 year old, but this seems to me to be at the other end of the scale. As a motorbike rider, I'm only too aware of how inconsiderate, or 'blind' 4 wheeled and commercial drivers are, of two wheeled riders whether motorised or not.

If you bother to read the post I do not 'recommend' anything.....I answered the OPs question....

 

[saneagle]

I'm not recommending any body do anything they don't feel comfortable with.
And I'm not saying rim brakes are better than disk brakes, but.
If well adjusted and maintained rim brakes will provide enough force to lock up a wheel. If I had disk brakes on the same bike doesn't this mean I just skid sooner?

If you lock the front wheel, you go over the handlebars. That's what happens when rim brakes grab.

 

[Az.]

If I had disk brakes on the same bike doesn't this mean I just skid sooner?

Having good brakes is not enough. You also need to learn how to use them. Unfortunately we don't have ABS yet.

 

[FastFreddy2]

Road contaminates in spray like oil will also affect disc brakes?

I would suggest contamination is very much about chance. It's not like any of us purposely ride through pools of oil. You've got to be fairly unfortunate to have your rim brakes contaminated, but where would you think greater risk will occur? Two large rings of material never more than 50mm from a road surface, or one much smaller ring with an edge profile possible 3mm wide?

Bit of an aside, but I've experience of diesel on the road which had me, girlfriend pillion rider and motor bike, sliding at 30mph across a roundabout on our side, into the path of oncoming traffic entering the roundabout. At the time, a busy route for buses and HGV construction traffic. We were bloody lucky to walk away from that incident.

In the past I have dug mud out of rim brakes (which had made them useless) but I've never had to remove debris from the inside of a bike disc caliper. Disc brakes tend to be better at modulating too. Less on/off, and more of a transition to stopping.

If you bother to read the post I do not 'recommend' anything.....I answered the OPs question....

I disagree re rims brakes, cruising at a comfortable 22-24mph they stop me in no time and I've never had any concerns about them or their safety. YMMV.

That is a recommendation, supported by personal experience.

I looked at your bike, and the motor you are using. I ride off road and I would never trust what I do (which isn't much) to rim brakes, and nothing I can think of would have me riding that amount of energy and trusting my ability to stop, to rim brakes. You have been lucky, and likely most of that luck has been the result of your careful riding and skill level. So you think someone asking about a 30mph e-bike is going to have the same respect to their own personal safety, given the question they are asking?

Young people using motorised transport are pretty stupid. Ask any insurance company. The admin here, and those old enough to have been around the block once or twice, have seen what speed and lack of the right protection/right attitude can do to people. (I don't exclude myself from these comments, I was once young - I'm pretty sure!)

As a community, "we" should not in any way help facilitate (a) anything illegal and (b) anything that might in a court be perceived as condoning unnecessary risk. The first couple of responses to the OP, pretty much says as much.

 

[Waspy]

If you lock the front wheel, you go over the handlebars. That's what happens when rim brakes grab.

I admire your patience.

 

[portals]

A lot of the issues with the faster potentially illegal ebikes could be somewhat mitigated if the anaemic 250W pedelec 'law' was raised to say 350W/400W so you could buy a street legal ebike that is capable in normal use of say 20-22mph. For me this is the sweet spot on decent main roads in good conditions and would sway me (and possibly many others), to buy it over a more powerful dinner plate and also give excellent range.

Given the speeds the lycras cycle about in busy streets here...easily 20+mph...would that really be madness, increasing the legal power by 1/3rd...?

 

[portals]

If you lock the front wheel, you go over the handlebars. That's what happens when rim brakes grab.

I admire your patience.

You guys.....

Of course no-one has ever gone over the handle bars using disc brakes....

Front hydraulic disk brake is too powerful on MTB — solutions?

I am thinking about disconnecting my front brake altogether because it's either on or it's off, and there's no in-betweens. As a result I've been over the handlebars about five times now and it's g...

bicycles.stackexchange.com

google it...etc. etc. etc.

If you don't know how to setup any type of bike brakes then potentially you're in trouble... ;-)

No-one is arguing rim brakes are 'better' (more efficient), than disc brakes, of course disc brakes should be better at braking given differences in SA, grip etc., however what I'm saying is that in my particular use case they are not required....pls get over it...

 

[soundwave]

A lot of the issues with the faster potentially illegal ebikes could be somewhat mitigated if the anaemic 250W pedelec 'law' was raised to say 350W/400W so you could buy a street legal ebike that is capable in normal use of say 20-22mph. For me this is the sweet spot on decent main roads in good conditions and would sway me (and possibly many others), to buy it over a more powerful dinner plate and also give excellent range.

Given the speeds the lycras cycle about in busy streets here...easily 20+mph...would that really be madness, increasing the legal power by 1/3rd...?

lycras not 1 in ten years can beat me, i got 40mph mode

 

[portals]

Nice bike, suspension looks...comfy...lol...not sure about the razor seat though, I'd have a nice padded one and maybe a visor like the French used to do for these 40mph moments. ;-)

 

[soundwave]

tesco express is going to close in 5 mins go get my beer

 

[portals]

Bit of an aside, but I've experience of diesel on the road which had me, girlfriend pillion rider and motor bike, sliding at 30mph across a roundabout on our side, into the path of oncoming traffic entering the roundabout. At the time, a busy route for buses and HGV construction traffic. We were bloody lucky to walk away from that incident.

So it can happen to anyone anytime even if you take the greatest care, would your choice of brake type have saved you...?

You ride a motorbike, I don't. I passed my MC part 1 and 2 tests late 80s early 90s and
bought a 125 street legal Kawasaki not having a clue (with most of my first Student Loan...), and sold it almost immediately after less than 20miles as something deep inside of me told me that it would, one day, not end well for me. Multiple times I have almost bit again past decade and bought a runaround however ebikes possibly became my saviour.

That is a recommendation, supported by personal experience.

?
Personal experience is just what it is, personal experience, it's not a recommendation of anything in any shape or form, it's a statement of fact based on my own personal experiences based on my own set of circumstances.

I looked at your bike, and the motor you are using. I ride off road and I would never trust what I do (which isn't much) to rim brakes, and nothing I can think of would have me riding that amount of energy and trusting my ability to stop, to rim brakes. You have been lucky, and likely most of that luck has been the result of your careful riding and skill level. So you think someone asking about a 30mph e-bike is going to have the same respect to their own personal safety, given the question they are asking?

I'm not skilful, I just don't ride like a dik and am very aware of my fragility and circumstances. I don't ride off road unless you count the grassed areas in local spaces/parks when I can't avoid them, even then I try to avoid grass...just means less stability and more cleaning when I get home.

Young people using motorised transport are pretty stupid. Ask any insurance company. The admin here, and those old enough to have been around the block once or twice, have seen what speed and lack of the right protection/right attitude can do to people. (I don't exclude myself from these comments, I was once young - I'm pretty sure!)

Kids have always had a stupid streak, I got arrested with my mate aged 13 for doing the grand national along the rooftops of our local high street...(up the M&S fire escape, 200 yds running over roofs then down the WEWW fire escape...thinking about the speed jumps we did makes me feel physically sick these days). OG Parkour.

As a community, "we" should not in any way help facilitate (a) anything illegal and (b) anything that might in a court be perceived as condoning unnecessary risk. The first couple of responses to the OP, pretty much says as much.

Christ, god help us from straying from the path of the righteous lord...