Complete conversion kit vs. replacing parts

[Emily Joy]

After the full case assessment, my Gazelle Orange Innergy (born electric, so to say), requires
(1) a new battery and perhaps a charger
(2) a new controller
(3) a new display

I am wondering if it might be better to get a conversion kit and replace the whole system? My priority is reliability.
Currently the controller is built-in in the front light, and the motor is built in the front wheel. Is there any advantage in replacing by parts, i.e. more flexibility/better quality?

 

[wheeliepete]

You could fit a new controller, LCD and PAS sensor along with a new battery if you have the skills to do so. The controller will not fit in your headlight, so a small saddlebag could be used. This is assuming that your motor is ok, as although new, has not really been tested. These are all tried and tested parts that are used by many forum members.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/36V-48V-350W-Brushless-DC-Sine-Wave-Controller-ebike-Electric-Bicycle-Hub-Motor-Controller-with-right/1314442_32759804535.htm

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ebike-24V-36V-48V-intelligent-LCD-Control-Panel-LCD-Display-Electric-Bicycle-bike-Parts-for-KT/1314442_32613010219.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Dual-Hall-Sensor-12-Signals-Easy-Assembling-PAS/1314442_32613661336.html

Alternatively, you could buy a complete kit, have a look at the kits Woosh offers, all tried and tested components, well put together with excellent CS and help along the way, should you need it. Have a look at the Yose Power kits and batteries, good components and good value for the money, maybe not as refined as Woosh, but shipped from German and carry an 18 month warranty.

https://www.yosepower.com/en/category/front-48.html

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits

 

[harrys]

Nice bike per this video:

It will be hard to replicate the same biking experience with a kit, as your Gazelle has a torque sensor pedal, plus the integrated light.

There are four components to an ebike.
-motor
-controller/display
-battery/charger
-connecting wires
And I would be surprised that more than one failed at the same time.

I for one, would not want to cut up a nicely integrated bike like yours. I'd suggest finding a donor step-thru bike and putting a kit on it. With kits, it's usually the wiring that goes bad (sloppy install). Then find someone who can do better job on fixing the Gazelle as opposed to "Replace everything!"

 

[wheeliepete]

OP has already stated in a previous thread that she has a dead battery and a faulty controller as diagnosed by a dealer. Here are the OEM parts to replace.

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/branded-bicycle-parts/gazelle-bicycle-parts/gazelle-e-bike-displays-parts/gazelle-e-bike-display/gazelle-control-unit-innergy-hybride-headlight-cables/

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/buying-a-bicycle/gazelle-bicycles/gazelle-battery/gazelle-battery-innergy-li-ion-gold-36v-x-11a-396wh/

 

[GLJoe]

OP has already stated in a previous thread that she has a dead battery and a faulty controller as diagnosed by a dealer. /

Yea ... but what are the chances of the battery, charger, display and controller ALL going faulty ??

Maybe if it was hit by lightning or left out in the rain for 3 years, but if not ......

 

[Emily Joy]

Yea ... but what are the chances of the battery, charger, display and controller ALL going faulty ??

Maybe if it was hit by lightning or left out in the rain for 3 years, but if not ......

The display is perfectly fine. The charger seems to be fine.

According to Gazelle's diagnostic software the battery was last charged back in 2013. :-( In addition it appears that the previous owner opened it and the bits inside are wobbling. You can actually hear some noise when shaking it. I haven't tried opening it so I do not know more. I do have a quote for re-celling battery from Jimmy. It's lower than hollandbikeshop price.

Motor is working fine as long as the bike is connected to a computer and with Gazelle's diagnostic software running (and a good battery is installed).

It wasn't hit by a lightening and it wasn't left out in the rain - it does look brand new.

 

[Emily Joy]

OP has already stated in a previous thread that she has a dead battery and a faulty controller as diagnosed by a dealer. Here are the OEM parts to replace.

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/branded-bicycle-parts/gazelle-bicycle-parts/gazelle-e-bike-displays-parts/gazelle-e-bike-display/gazelle-control-unit-innergy-hybride-headlight-cables/

https://hollandbikeshop.com/en-gb/buying-a-bicycle/gazelle-bicycles/gazelle-battery/gazelle-battery-innergy-li-ion-gold-36v-x-11a-396wh/

The difficulty here is that the controller is for pre-order only. Since the dealer contacted Gazelle HQ in Holland and they said they don't have replacements, I strongly suspect that hollandbikeshop won't be able to supply them either.

 

[Emily Joy]

It will be hard to replicate the same biking experience with a kit, as your Gazelle has a torque sensor pedal, plus the integrated light.

You are right - it's a joy to ride. I did some 25 miles today to take it to a local bike shop which have some experience in electric bikes. Even without assistance it's so much better than most I've tried so far.

I for one, would not want to cut up a nicely integrated bike like yours. I'd suggest finding a donor step-thru bike and putting a kit on it.

I am not following you. Are you proposing to find another 7 years old Gazelle Innergy?...

With kits, it's usually the wiring that goes bad (sloppy install). Then find someone who can do better job on fixing the Gazelle as opposed to "Replace everything!"

That's what I would prefer to do. The local bike shop told me they could try if I get all replacement parts, but have never done it before...

 

[Emily Joy]

Alternatively, you could buy a complete kit, have a look at the kits Woosh offers, all tried and tested components, well put together with excellent CS and help along the way, should you need it. Have a look at the Yose Power kits and batteries, good components and good value for the money, maybe not as refined as Woosh, but shipped from German and carry an 18 month warranty.

https://www.yosepower.com/en/category/front-48.html

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits

A potential complication with a new kit is that the front fork of Gazelle Orange Innergy is wider than most bikes - it is 5.5 inches where the motor is sitting.

So it is likely to be the case that I would need to use the original wiring and to keep the motor...

 

[GLJoe]

The display is perfectly fine. The charger seems to be fine.

That's not what your first posting seemed to indicate ??

 

[Emily Joy]

That's not what your first posting seemed to indicate ??

Apologies for the confusion. Since OEM controllers are no longer available, I believe I need a replacement and this would need to come with its own display, as far as I understand. Please correct me if I am wrong!

Similarly for the charger. If it turns out to be possible and practical to re-cell the battery I have I will definitely keep the charger.

 

[wheeliepete]

A potential complication with a new kit is that the front fork of Gazelle Orange Innergy is wider than most bikes - it is 5.5 inches where the motor is sitting.

So it is likely to be the case that I would need to use the original wiring and to keep the motor...

It's no problem to keep and use the original motor if you are certain it is in working order, but you will need to extend the wiring from it to relocate the new controller. You will lose the torque sensor function in doing this, but if no OEM controller can be found, there is no way around that. If there is communication circuitry inside your battery, this may not survive the recelling process in which case your charger may not work and may need replacing.

 

[harrys]

Emily, we all took you literally when you said controller, battery and motor had to be replaced.

You bought it used? Get the new controller if possible and upgrade the battery when you can. A rattle could just mean some foam shrunk.

You'd ruin the Gazelle putting a kit on it. It will pedal different and not respond as well. You probably would get used to it in a week, but now you got wires spliced up and cheaper controls. That's the way most kits work.

Faced with cost of motor, battery, and electronics, which no longer is the case, I would tell someone to just buy a cheap used bike and put a Woosh or Yose kit on it. In the USA, we don't see those options.

 

[Emily Joy]

Emily, we all took you literally when you said controller, battery and motor had to be replaced.

I have never said that the motor needs replacing. Quite the opposite, as pointed out above, it is probably better to keep it, if possible.

Get the new controller if possible and upgrade the battery when you can. A rattle could just mean some foam shrunk.

This would be my preferred option. I would like to have some sort of plan that is likely to work - that's why I am here.

In fact this forum is the only place where I get reassurance that it could be done and at a reasonable cost. Bike workshops I have been asking for advise either told me that they can't help with replacement parts, or quoted £1500 for a kit only.

You'd ruin the Gazelle putting a kit on it. It will pedal different and not respond as well. You probably would get used to it in a week, but now you got wires spliced up and cheaper controls. That's the way most kits work.

At first I thought the whole kit might work better. It seems I was wrong. However, ultimately I would prefer to have a working bike which is slightly imperfect, rather than a bike with a set of perfect electric components which are of no use.

 

[Emily Joy]

but you will need to extend the wiring from it to relocate the new controller. You will lose the torque sensor function in doing this, but if no OEM controller can be found, there is no way around that.

It was suggested that "the controller has a volt of 20 or less while it should be between 24 and 42 volt". To me it does sound like a job for a soldering iron or tweezers, but I am no expert here.

 

[wheeliepete]

It was suggested that "the controller has a volt of 20 or less while it should be between 24 and 42 volt". To me it does sound like a job for a soldering iron or tweezers, but I am no expert here.

I assume the voltage reading came from the dealer who carried out the diagnostic on the bike and would confirm a fault within the controller. As far as extending the motor cables, then yes, some soldering will be required and you can use the headlight to hide the joint in the cable. I agree it is a shame to loose some of the features of the original bike, but with the parts I have suggested in my first post, it will still be a quality built bike with reliable well proven conponents, which in the event of them failing are readily avaiable and cheap. If you really want to cover yourself, buy 2 of everything, you will still have change from £100.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Waterproof-Motor-Cable-Motor-Wire-Motor-Connector/32816702314.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.643c2e0eKZvOOA

 

[wheeliepete]

A bit of a long shot, but in your quest for a OEM controller, you could try a search for Dutch Gazelle dealers who may have one on a shelf collecting dust. Don't look at what they have in their online shop, contact them direct. Gazelle did have problems with the electronics on their early bikes and the larger dealers may well have kept these parts in stock if they were replacing them in large numbers. You never know.

 

[Emily Joy]

A bit of a long shot, but in your quest for a OEM controller, you could try a search for Dutch Gazelle dealers who may have one on a shelf collecting dust. Don't look at what they have in their online shop, contact them direct. Gazelle did have problems with the electronics on their early bikes and the larger dealers may well have kept these parts in stock if they were replacing them in large numbers. You never know.

That's exactly what I am doing. Writing to Dutch companies which offer conversion kits (ombouwsets) and/or used to make electronics for Gazelle in case they might be happy to help. It seems there might be a possibility to keep the torque sensor, but it's not definite...

P.S. Meanwhile, I am reading the Big Blue Book, as was suggested in another thread.

 

[Emily Joy]

Eventually, I managed to find a Gazelle dealer in Netherlands who still has one controller compatible with this model in stock. I am in Holland at the moment (my bike is still in the UK) and I have had a long chat with the shop owner.

Apparently, these type of controllers (first generation) are very sensitive and not too easy to install, as they can be broken with static electricity and one has to work "grounded".. Presumably knowing what he is doing

Alas, I am not such a person and most of the local bike workshops are scared by the look of the bike with full chainguard.

The difficulty with replacing the whole system is that the front fork is wider than usual and "normal" wheel won't fit (5.5 inches).

 

[SilverTurfer]

I've just tripped over Emily's thread here, and I've read some of her other ones.
I too am the proud owner of Gazelle Innergy, but a very dissapointed one.

I bought the bike a few weeks ago via eBay ... it did work but the performance was not what you would expect.
Then the Nexus 8 speed hub broke and I could only use 1st gear.
I've had the gear hub rebuilt and respoked, after getting a new hub from Holland Bike shop, it took a couple of weeks as the PostNL sent it to Belgium.

The local bike shop were great and had the bike all fixed up in a day, but I was away.

I finally picked the bike up on Friday, I'm gutted, it was sort of working but I suspect while the bike was parked outside the shop someone has swapped the display for a dud one.
It was not great in the first place but now it has the buttons missing and the LCD hardly works. Plus of course this part may be programmed to someone else's bike ????

I would have loved ti keep the Gazelle Original as I have another Gazelle that's about 40 years old with rod brakes and its the coolest machine to ride.

But early Innergy's have well documented problems with the electronics, so for me the way ahead will be to get a Chinese generic display + Controller + Pedal Sensor.

My task this afternoon is to get inside the headlight to document the connections.
I'll have to find out how to open that headlight .. its not obvious.

Does anyone know how to do it, before I wreck it?