Clacking noise - Kalkhoff Impulse 2 motor

[Colin Tate]

Thanks. Well I did check that and it seemed to look ok to me. But perhaps it's a fraction off if you're saying there's a fine line ... Is this something you're able to sort yourself? And just how precise does it have to be??!

 

[SteveRuss]

Thanks. Well I did check that and it seemed to look ok to me. But perhaps it's a fraction off if you're saying there's a fine line ... Is this something you're able to sort yourself? And just how precise does it have to be??!

Very precise. If you ride along, change gear a couple of times and then finish in fourth gear then come to a stop. Go to third then fifth gear a couple of times without moving then back to fourth. Have a look at the green lines, then adjust the nut on the end of the gear change level whilst looking at the two green alignment lines. Line them up perfectly.

The info is in this video..

I'm not saying this is definitely your issue but it does sounds like it's more than likely.. Best of luck

 

[RobF]

Also worth checking the hub nuts are tight, those on my Alfine 11 tend to come undone.

 

[oriteroom]

My Tasman Impulse 2 ( now 700 miles ) makes the same whining noise as the problem bikes but not the clicking noises. It is however nowhere near as quiet as the BBS01 motor on my Pashley Parabike conversion.

Agree, whilst the Tasman Impulse 2 motor is not clacking (yet!!!), it makes also makes whining noise and is nowhere near as quiet as the three Panasonic motors in our 'collection'. This has not turned out to be an UPGRADE in our view!!

 

[Tomtomato]

it makes also makes whining noise and is nowhere near as quiet as the three Panasonic motors in our 'collection'.

My initial Impulse 2 motor was very quiet (before the issue developed) and the replacement motor is very quiet too. I couldn't expect an electric motor to be any quieter, so maybe yours has an issue.

Kalkhoff have surely achieved a great seamless assistance integration (and that's probably the main difference with much cheaper bikes): I don't know if the motor is running or not, most of the time.

 

[oriteroom]

Kalkhoff have surely achieved a great seamless assistance integration (and that's probably the main difference with much cheaper bikes): I don't know if the motor is running or not, most of the time.

The Panasonic motors in my comparison are the crank drives as fitted to the earlier Kalkhoff bikes from 2008 onwards until they diverted into their own Impulse drives. They certainly weren't cheaper bikes, Kalkhoff have always been at the quality end of the market. This quality in the latest generation doesn't reflect my experience with the three earlier models in our collection and the Tasman performance. I lack confidence that in 7 years and 13,000 miles we shall ave enjoyed the faultless performance of the earlier Kalkhoffs.

 

[Colin Tate]

Very precise. If you ride along, change gear a couple of times and then finish in fourth gear then come to a stop. Go to third then fifth gear a couple of times without moving then back to fourth. Have a look at the green lines, then adjust the nut on the end of the gear change level whilst looking at the two green alignment lines. Line them up perfectly.

The info is in this video..

I'm not saying this is definitely your issue but it does sounds like it's more than likely.. Best of luck

Thanks! I'll give this a go.

 

[Roger R]

The noise started about a month from new and was actually much worse than the YouTube recordings. It was a consistent clacking in top power uphill. I still have this recording and sent it to 50 cycles. I have contacted them again last week and they are waiting until they have a motor in stock then I'm taking it in. They will then check it out and hopefully replace.

As an update took bike to 50Cycles yesterday and they replaced the motor. Obviously I had a lot of evidence with sound and visual recordings from one month to six months old. Credit to them that they replaced without question although it cost me to travel over from north Wales. New motor already sounds quieter on general use after quick test although will need more use for proper appraisal. So back to the road on what is otherwise a lovely bike. As I've said before the best 2k I've ever spent in terms of enjoyment.

 

[nemesis]

i have had a new motor fitted by 50c with the latest software,shame about the breakage but even so i think the impulse drive is easily the most powerful mid drive available and with the 17ah battery the longest range,i have tried them all and my other bike with a bosch performance line motor doesn`t have the same torque or pull of the impulse drive.

 

[Will Tinker]

Well, thought I'd provide my (slightly over) 500 mile update. With my Connect Impulse 9.

Nothing major to report at this stage. Motor seems to be running fine, bicycle behaving without any major issues. I'm quite happy so far.

A couple of minor things:

* I've noticed a little bit of chain-slip on a couple of occasions this past week. No idea what caused it. Not a big deal though.

* The front disc brake - I've been having problems with this since the start, where after a while it loses braking traction and makes a loud screeching noise. The last time it happened (about a month ago), 50cycles removed the brake, cleaned the disc and pad, and it was fine again. But now a few weeks later - same! Weird, never happened on my last bike (which also had disc brakes). Any idea?

 

[git-r]

I'm considering buying a Kalkhoff with this motor but would really appreciate any further feedback on their reliability.

Thanks in advance for any replies

 

[tillson]

My friend's second motor is on the way out. It's following exactly the same route to failure as the first one.

There is some more information in this thread http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/kalkhoff-pro-connect-impulse-10-2015-review.19618/page-3

One person is waiting for his third motor replacement. It seems to be affecting the high mileage commuter type users rather than the leisure cyclists. If Kalkhoff haven't addressed this with a modified motor, they need to do so pretty quickly. The serial swapping of motors until the warranty runs out is not a solution.

 

[git-r]

My friend's second motor is on the way out. It's following exactly the same route to failure as the first one.

There is some more information in this thread http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/kalkhoff-pro-connect-impulse-10-2015-review.19618/page-3

One person is waiting for his third motor replacement. It seems to be affecting the high mileage commuter type users rather than the leisure cyclists. If Kalkhoff haven't addressed this with a modified motor, they need to do so pretty quickly. The serial swapping of motors until the warranty runs out is not a solution.

Many thanks for this, I've read that thread you linked already and it really doesn't give me any faith in the brand.

Pretty gutted as this means it's back to the drawing board with my search for a decent ebike.

Motor failures at this rate are just unacceptable and if 50 cycles aren't fighting the manufacturer for a proper fix then they'll risk losing a lot of custom.

Grrr this makes me angry and in feel very sorry for those owners affected.

 

[tillson]

I have a Kalkhoff Pro-Connect from 2008. These old models are fitted with the Panasonic motor which is very reliable. I've done over 20000 miles and had a new motor and battery last year.

It's a shame they adopted this Impulse motor, because the rest of the newer bike is still equal to, if not better than the older models. Having said that, my bike is so well made and the paint finish is so tough that it still looks new when clean.

I'm guessing here based on what I perceive from this forum's membership, but I suspect that a lot of customers are low mileage retired users who aren't going to punish the bike with a daily comute. Maybe they won't experience this clacking and eventual failure of the motor, or if they do, not for some time yet.

If I were buying an Ebike today, I'd be looking for a second hand Kalkhoff with a Panasonic motor. I think something like a Pro-Connect Disk 8 would make the perfect hard wearing, throw anything at it bike. If the worst happened and a new battery and motor were needed, an £800 outlay would sort it out (assuming you could fit it yourself). People may ask for more, but they won't get above £400 for the base bike, so for a maximum of £1200, you could get a superb bike which I think is better than almost anything on offer today.

In more recent times, manufacturers seem to have hurtled headlong into a blind alley called torque. Bicycles are flimsy light weight affairs with their components designed to transmit human power + a slight margin. That's what the older ebikes are / were, a human + a bit from the motor, and everything worked. What seems to be happening today is that manufacturers are asking too much from the components, almost nudging into automotive demands. Because they need to keep the bike's weight down, or else no one will buy one, they are breaking. We see few hub geared bikes, silly small chain wheels and software to cut / reduce motor power during gear changes. All of these thing are compromises because torque, or power, or both is too much for the bike components.

Don't underestimate the motor contribution on the older bikes or believe that the high torque figures quoted for new ones is necessary though. My old bike will climb virtually anything and that's what you want the motor for, to help you up hills and to push into a strong headwind. Ebikes are by definition ASSISTED bicycles, not low power electric mopeds. The more manufacturers try to make them emulate the latter, the more mechanical problems will accompany them, as we are seeing.

 

[JohnCade]

I think the problem is the Impulse 11 motor, not the impulse which in its original form is a very good and reliable motor. I have one and it’s quite powerful enough for me even though I live in a very hilly area and am only a month or so away from starting my seventh decade. I’ve tried the 11 and it is a lot more powerful and that is the problem. The motor mechanicals are I believe otherwise the same as mine but the claimed torque is almost twice as much.

The power war is to blame and Bosch had its problems with failing bearings too. But I would not buy an Impulse 11, and it seems to be in the process of being phased out anyway in favour of the new Evo motor. Which I assume has fixed it.

Pity Tim from 50 Cycles doesn’t come here and give us some genuine information rather than keeping schtum. There are still some 2016 Impulse 11 models being sold so are they still the same spec for instance? If they are and it is a fault which can’t be fixed in that generation of motor then I assume they will just replace them until the two year warranty runs out - and then the buyer is on his own. Which is not good at all. But perhaps they have fixed it for 2016? We just don’t know whether they have or not. Meanwhile they are still selling off the 2015 models which do definitely have this fault….

 

[git-r]

Tillson - agreed although I see it as a good thing that there is this 'torque' war as it should encourage progress in the long run.

Thank you for your suggestion about the older model but I'm not sure the battery would last for my intended use (25 mile commute on full assist).

I also would like the most assistance and least effort on my part so the more power the better. Unlike some here I'm happy with my fitness and would be looking at an ebike to run alongside my road bike. Commuting 125 miles a week inevitably ends up with me losing interest and taking the train or car but hope an ebike would stop this.

John - thanks for this and I'm pleased to hear of your good experience. I agree that it would be good for Tim to respond to these issues, there are too many unhappy customers. Oh and congratulations on your seventh decade!!

 

[tillson]

Pity Tim from 50 Cycles doesn’t come here and give us some genuine information rather than keeping schtum. There are still some 2016 Impulse 11 models being sold so are they still the same spec for instance? If they are and it is a fault which can’t be fixed in that generation of motor then I assume they will just replace them until the two year warranty runs out - and then the buyer is on his own. Which is not good at all. But perhaps they have fixed it for 2016?

This is an important point. The serial swapping of motors with an inherent design flaw until the warranty runs out is not an acceptable solution. These customers need to be looking towards the european consumer guarantee. This gives provision for customers to claim against manufacturers or retailers after the stated warranty runs out. The spirit of the legislation is that if a product is marketed / sold at the premium end of the market, with a price tag to match, which Kalkhoffs are, then you should expect the product to last for a period of time which reflects the price / product marketing. This can be well outside the manufacturer's warranty period. For example, Apple computers have a standard 12 month guarantee. If you quote the above law, they will repair for a period of up to 6 years. I know because I have done it and they have told me this is the case (rather makes Apple Care obsolete, although I've never paid for any extended warranty).

 

[tillson]

Tillson - agreed although I see it as a good thing that there is this 'torque' war as it should encourage progress in the long run. Thank you for your suggestion about the older model but I'm not sure the battery would last for my intended use (25 mile commute on full assist).

Torque is a totally meaningless figure and people shouldn't read too much into it. It is possible to make the second hand on your wrist watch deliver more torque than any bike, but you wouldn't want a wrist watch motor powering your bike! Because ultimately these bikes are just bicycles with bicycle components, it is those components which will dictate how much power the motor can deliver, not motor technology itself.

We reached the limit for the present crop of bicycle transmission 5 years ago and now we have exceeded it and things are breaking. Ebike components will always come from developments in the non-assisted market as that is where the large number of sales are.

I also would like the most assistance and least effort on my part so the more power the better. Unlike some here I'm happy with my fitness and would be looking at an ebike to run alongside my road bike. Commuting 125 miles a week inevitably ends up with me losing interest and taking the train or car but hope an ebike would stop this.

Your cycling pattern sounds pretty much like mine. I use a non assisted road bike as much as possible, exclusively through the summer and have a reasonable standard of fitness. My old Kalkhoff has an easy 50 mile range with its 18Ah battery, more if I'd not been too mean to buy the 25Ah version. The performance difference between it and my friend's 2015 kalkhoff Pro-Connect is negligible, the price difference is massive, however.

 

[trex]

Torque is a totally meaningless figure and people shouldn't read too much into it...

By and large, manufacturers tend to give the maximum torque at the motor wheel - for crank drive, at their smallest gain ratio, as a basis for comparison.
As such, it does truthfully reflect how much help you'll get climbing a steep hill. High torque when given in this manner is usually obtained by having more gears and more current going through the controller. It's the latter that kills the motor.

 

[tillson]

High torque when given in this manner is usually obtained by having more gears and more current going through the controller. It's the latter that kills the motor.

From what I know about the Impulse motor, it's the high torque from the motor and reduction gearing combination that is damaging pawls in the chainwheel freewheel. It seems as though the freewheel isn't strong enough to cope with the torque and initially it becomes noisy and then fails with continued use.