Change off mind from yose power to mid drive

[Michael 2025]

Apologise in advance if should of kept it in my old thread

my head been batted with choosing this conversation kits , was so set on hub drive but
Been looking at mid drives kit again after segnal on here pointed out mid drive was option .
Think he right there more balenced for my bike
Easy repair punctures etc

so been looking at these

TSDZ8 48v
TSDZ2B 48v
BBS02 48v

the only thing put me off mid drives is if chain snaps but was thinking if carry quick link and spare chain that should sort me problem
and Slow down before charge gear .

but main one is will it fit my carrea hellcat 20 inch frame bottom bracket 73mm
And will be chain alignment be right for me
This Bike ,

few pic me bike to see what you think and appreciate all advice will get this built
And stop asking so many questions

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I've got a BBS02 conversion and it works well although rated at 750W so not UK or EU legal. I also converted an old Gary Fisher mountain bike for my sister using the Woosh TSDZ8 48v (rated at 250W) it's very powerful. It does fit 68mm and 73mm bottom brackets, but you need to be careful with the chainstay. There is a template you can cut out and check

I originally fitted a washer to give clearance of the motor from the frame, but then there wasn't enough thread with a 73mm bottom bracket to fit the locknut, so I made some "alterations" to the chainstay with a hammer and hacksaw and it fitted great, didn't need the spacing washer and I could fit the locknut. Make sure you tighten the motor very tight before fitting the locknut

E-Bike for Coast to Coast ride

If the outer part of the puller won't screw into the crank arm then, yes you need a different puller. When you've got the right puller don't forget to make sure the inner part is well unscrewed before you screw the outer part fully into the crank arm. If you don't do that the outer will only...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

Apologise in advance if should of kept it in my old thread

my head been batted with choosing this conversation kits , was so set on hub drive but
Been looking at mid drives kit again after segnal on here pointed out mid drive was option .
Think he right there more balenced for my bike
Easy repair punctures etc

so been looking at these

TSDZ8 48v
TSDZ2B 48v
BBS02 48v

the only thing put me off mid drives is if chain snaps but was thinking if carry quick link and spare chain that should sort me problem
and Slow down before charge gear .

but main one is will it fit my carrea hellcat 20 inch frame bottom bracket 73mm
And will be chain alignment be right for me
This Bike ,

few pic me bike to see what you think and appreciate all advice will get this built
And stop asking so many questions

Puncture repairs are not easier on mid-drives. The procedure is the same:

• Invert the bike
• Pull the tyre off one side
• Pull the tube out
• Pump in some air
• Find the leak
• Patch it
• Check the tyre in the corresponding position to remove whatever caaused the puncture
• Push the tube back in
• Pull the tyre back on
• Pump it up.

That's the same whichever type of motor you have.
There are three main differences that you'll notice: Firstly, you have to be in the right gear all the time. If you stop in top gear, you can do some serious damage if you try to restart in it, especially on a higher power one. Once incident has the potential to leave you stranded with a broken chain or derailleur. Some people are more disciplined and careful. I smashed a chain like that on my hub-motor bike, so it won't be long before it happens on my crank one. During a long commute in temperatures below zero, your hands become cold any you become lethargic. You lose the will to change gear.

Secondly, is the crunch you get during shifting sometimes - mainly when accelerating uphill, but it can happen anytime. That's only a problem if you have mechanical sympathy for your bike. It's like hitting a puppy. Some people don't care at all. Others can't stand it. The puppy doesn't like it much either. Eventually it becomes injured.

Thirdly is the cost. When you increase the stress on components, the wear rates accelerate, so they need to be checked and replaced more frequently - chain, cassette, chainwheel and derailleur parts. The more powerful the motor, the worse thats going to be. Riding round an level one with a TSDZ2 wouldn't bemuch different to a normal bike, but a TSDZ8 on level 4 all the time is going to do some wearing.

I ride a 48v TSDZ2 most of the time now, because I'm too lazy to sort out some issues with the suspension on my hub-motor bike. It's quite a bit slower, especially on hills. I'm pretty sure it's less powerful because I have to shift right down on medium inclines, which I don't do on my other bike. It feels slower all-round.

The big advantage is the speed and convenience of installation. It's very quick when your bike doesn't have rear suspension. The only problem I had was the chain kept coming off when I used the low gears. That's quite common when you fit a new chain to a crank-drive bike, but once the chain has worn a bit, it can bend more side to side and the alignment isn't so important. I fixed it by making a chain guide to hold the chain on the chainwheel, which was just a piece of bent metal fixed to the seat tube. £7 for the frame clamp, 10 minutes to drill and bend the metal strip and a few goes at adjusting the bend until it was right.

 

[Michael 2025]

Puncture repairs are not easier on mid-drives. The procedure is the same:

• Invert the bike
• Pull the tyre off one side
• Pull the tube out
• Pump in some air
• Find the leak
• Patch it
• Check the tyre in the corresponding position to remove whatever caaused the puncture
• Push the tube back in
• Pull the tyre back on
• Pump it up.

That's the same whichever type of motor you have.
There are three main differences that you'll notice: Firstly, you have to be in the right gear all the time. If you stop in top gear, you can do some serious damage if you try to restart in it, especially on a higher power one. Once incident has the potential to leave you stranded with a broken chain or derailleur. Some people are more disciplined and careful. I smashed a chain like that on my hub-motor bike, so it won't be long before it happens on my crank one. During a long commute in temperatures below zero, your hands become cold any you become lethargic. You lose the will to change gear.

Secondly, is the crunch you get during shifting sometimes - mainly when accelerating uphill, but it can happen anytime. That's only a problem if you have mechanical sympathy for your bike. It's like hitting a puppy. Some people don't care at all. Others can't stand it. The puppy doesn't like it much either. Eventually it becomes injured.

Thirdly is the cost. When you increase the stress on components, the wear rates accelerate, so they need to be checked and replaced more frequently - chain, cassette, chainwheel and derailleur parts. The more powerful the motor, the worse thats going to be. Riding round an level one with a TSDZ2 wouldn't bemuch different to a normal bike, but a TSDZ8 on level 4 all the time is going to do some wearing.

I ride a 48v TSDZ2 most of the time now, because I'm too lazy to sort out some issues with the suspension on my hub-motor bike. It's quite a bit slower, especially on hills. I'm pretty sure it's less powerful because I have to shift right down on medium inclines, which I don't do on my other bike. It feels slower all-round.

The big advantage is the speed and convenience of installation. It's very quick when your bike doesn't have rear suspension. The only problem I had was the chain kept coming off when I used the low gears. That's quite common when you fit a new chain to a crank-drive bike, but once the chain has worn a bit, it can bend more side to side and the alignment isn't so important. I fixed it by making a chain guide to hold the chain on the chainwheel, which was just a piece of bent metal fixed to the seat tube. £7 for the frame clamp, 10 minutes to drill and bend the metal strip and a few goes at adjusting the bend until it was right.

thank you , you made some good points there
Could you what the stock firmware like on
48v TSDZ2/B as a have been redding up that level 1/2 not much good but 3/4 does make light peddling gets you up to speed and effortless for hills , Plus the battery last long on mid drives a been told

TSDZ8 is nearly same price as TSDZ2 /B but a been told TSDZ2/B lighter and blend in more
With the bike but what’s the stock firmware
Like for these two motors are there ok to use
Stright out the box , as 15 half stone ??

 

[Michael 2025]

I've got a BBS02 conversion and it works well although rated at 750W so not UK or EU legal. I also converted an old Gary Fisher mountain bike for my sister using the Woosh TSDZ8 48v (rated at 250W) it's very powerful. It does fit 68mm and 73mm bottom brackets, but you need to be careful with the chainstay. There is a template you can cut out and check

I originally fitted a washer to give clearance of the motor from the frame, but then there wasn't enough thread with a 73mm bottom bracket to fit the locknut, so I made some "alterations" to the chainstay with a hammer and hacksaw and it fitted great, didn't need the spacing washer and I could fit the locknut. Make sure you tighten the motor very tight before fitting the locknut

E-Bike for Coast to Coast ride

If the outer part of the puller won't screw into the crank arm then, yes you need a different puller. When you've got the right puller don't forget to make sure the inner part is well unscrewed before you screw the outer part fully into the crank arm. If you don't do that the outer will only...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Thank you there lot off ppl recommend these
As there been around lot longer what’s the stock
Firmware like for these as it’s very hard to get UART now so you can’t customise the firmware it’s all CAN bus protocol

 

[saneagle]

thank you , you made some good points there
Could you what the stock firmware like on
48v TSDZ2/B as a have been redding up that level 1/2 not much good but 3/4 does make light peddling gets you up to speed and effortless for hills , Plus the battery last long on mid drives a been told

I didn't find a reason to change the stock firmware. The bike works fine as it is, though the OSF allows you to increase the power a bit, which might be useful to some, but if that's what you want, it would be better and easier to get the TSDZ8, which is designed for higher power.

The only way you get a battery to last longer on any bike is by pedalling harder. There is no magic in a mid-drive. Some people try to claim that mid-drives are more efficient, but the tests I did showed that there isn't any difference. The myth probably comes from the fact that most mid-drives have torque sensors, which prevent you from lazy pedalling.

Any gains that mid-drives might make from being able to keep close to optimum RPM are cancelled out by the 5% losses in the drive system. That 5% loss is constant, while as a 230 rpm hub-motor running at 15mph in a 29" wheel will have zero losses, and on a long commute, that's where it'll be most of the time, unless you're riding in a city.

Having said all that, efficiency isn't really something to worry about. A 20Ah 48v battery should be able to deal with your commute at full power. What difference would it make if something else can go further with the same battery, even if it could?

 

[AndyBike]

the only thing put me off mid drives is if chain snaps but was thinking if carry quick link and spare chain that should sort me problem
and Slow down before charge gear .

It's never going to be an issue, unless you fail to look after the chain, oil(+wipe clean after) replace when worn etc.
But as to snapping I'd say unlikely. Its a rare thing and certainly not limited to mid drives.
No of gears would also play a part. a big chunky 8spd chain is more robust that a 12spd chain that needs to be a bit thinner.

and Slow down before charge gear .

You dont need to slow down. Just take the weight off the pedals
Obviously trying to storm up a steep hill and change gear halfway up is going to put a lot of strain on the drivetrain, but again if you unload/pause then change, it will change fine without any issue.


pssst.... mid drives are better than hub drives

 

[saneagle]

pssst.... mid drives are better than hub drives

Mid-drives are shite. Hub-motors are the only sensible solution for a commuter.

Why do you think Soundwave has a mid-drive - and he likes it? Is it anything to do with his life-style? Are you afflicted in the same way? Think about how people, who stop taking mind altering drugs, can come back to reality and rational thought. There's always hope.

 

[guerney]

Thank you there lot off ppl recommend these
As there been around lot longer what’s the stock
Firmware like for these as it’s very hard to get UART now so you can’t customise the firmware it’s all CAN bus protocol

If the display is both UART and CAN bus capable, buying a CAN bus kit and replacing the controller would be a gamble for the determined, if they physically fit. I bought my BBS01B controller from greenbikekit, thanks to a tipoff from @peter.c, and it's fully programmable thank goodness, current limit isn't locked. I have qvestioned them, asking if they have UART BBS01B and BBS02 controllers in stock and they do. Whether the controllers are fully programmable (current limit has been reported locked on this forum, more common with 48V controllers) is a murkier matter. Apparently UART kit production has stopped, but replacement UART controllers are available at the moment. Best ask questions about their kits yourself if interested.

Gear sensor works wonderfully on my legal 36V 20A "250W" 720W BBS01B conversion, to momentarily cut off power during gear changes - there is no crunching and angry gnashing of gear teeth, even when accelerating uphill, except when it's exceptionally rainy, raining vertical ocean while I'm changing gear uphill. Very rarely happens, but I suppose this could be fixed with a gear sensor gizmo incorporating a rain gauge and accelerometers detecting bike angle to slightly lengthen power cutoff duration.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Talking about mid drive / hub drive. I've got a Boardman gravel bike that I will convert at some stage :

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/£245-argos-folder-improvements-complete-story.47790/post-740452

Was originally thinking a lightweight rear hub conversion similar to the hybrid Boardman that I did for my friend's wife.

I've got the North York Moors on my doorstep and thinking maybe better getting something that would get me (>100kg) up all the 25% hills (and steeper)

Rosedale Chimney Bank

Distance 0.9 miles (from the warning sign at the bottom to the sign at the top) Max Gradient 33%, 1 in 3 in old money Where do you find it? If you live near Pickering or Kirbymoorside you have a re…

clevelandwheelers.com

Possibly a 260 rpm 48v AKM 128 cst rear hub or a TSDZ8. The AKM would be a bit lighter, but if I'm spending a lot of time in the hills possibly the TSDZ8 would be more efficient.

 

[guerney]

Talking about mid drive / hub drive. I've got a Boardman gravel bike that I will convert at some stage

How many conversions have you done now Peter? Seems word has gotten around, you've gone pro and set up a veritable cottage industry. Sounds exhausting, makes me glad I don't know many people and hate them all.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

How many conversions have you done now Peter? Seems word has gotten around, you've gone pro and set up a veritable cottage industry.

10 I think, I've got some way to catch up some of the people here

I really enjoy it and learning, choosing the best option for the rider / usage. Just doing it for friends and family and myself, don't charge anyone (although I ve been given some nice bottles of wine !)

I do think it can be transformative for some people, my sister who wouldn't be able to run and most of the hills around her would be too steep to cycle now spends a lot of her free time pedelecing with her friends and daughters around the North York Moors.

She's much fitter, much happier, less stressed, lost weight

 

[AndyBike]

For sure Ebikes have changed peoples lives and perspectives for the better.

Mid-drives are shite. Hub-motors are the only sensible solution for a commuter.

Not very robust are they ? I mean just about every new thread on here is someone whose hub driven machine is experiencing terminal electronic issues, and that just from pottering along the tarmac.
Whereas most mid drive MTBs are being bashed about, crashing, the motors driven to their maximum, and still coming back for more.

 

[saneagle]

For sure Ebikes have changed peoples lives and perspectives for the better.



Not very robust are they ? I mean just about every new thread on here is someone whose hub driven machine is experiencing terminal electronic issues, and that just from pottering along the tarmac.
Whereas most mid drive MTBs are being bashed about, crashing, the motors driven to their maximum, and still coming back for more.

It's been a very long time since anybody has reported a broken hub-motor. I'd say maybe one in the last year compared with several crank-motors. The thing is, whatever electrical problem people get with their standard Chinese hub-motor bikes by doing daft things to them, they're very easy and cheap to fix, while as crank-motors require substantial surgery, only to find that the repair is either very expensive or impossible.

Also, we've been through all this many times before. When your motor packs/packed up, you wouldn't/didn't mention it here because you know there's nothing anybody here can do. Most hub-motor bikes like mine, cost around £50 in replacement parts over ten years and 10,000 miles. Your average crank-motor bike will spend more than that on the chain and cassette every 6 months.

 

[AndyBike]

When your motor packs/packed up, you wouldn't/didn't mention it here because you know there's nothing anybody here can do.

But thats not how people behave is it ?

Something goes wrong with the bike, they take it to the bike shop who says yah or nay.
Hub motors, few, if any bike shops will repair or even attempt to, Be it hub or mid drive

So they do the next best thing and google their problem. That brings them here.

Same goes for mid drives, they take it to the shop, who says yah/nay and they then google etc etc.
But we're not getting loads of queries about mid drives are we, only hub drives.

And its not a case of them happily accepting such and such cant be fixed, they want a 2nd, 3rd or 15th opinion. But they arent here are they ? they arent arriving in droves only to hear 'Sorry, unfixable'


So either their £3-£5k mid drive is consigned to the skip, which we know isnt happening, or its a case of the majority of mid drives dont have issues.

You can transfer this to any product. If a product is constantly filling up forums about problems, that specific item can justifiably be deemed as poorly constructed/designed, and people look to find the same product that doesnt fill forum boards will 'Oh my XXX has gone fubar'

One thing this forum has more than anything is new members joining and their first question beyond the 'hi there' is they want help because their hub drive has stopped functioning.

Now it doesnt go that my mechanical bike has stopped working, its the controller, its the wiring, but always something electrical

I agree totally with you that the motors themselves rarely go wrong, because an electric motor is a very simple device.
But my point earlier wasnt to go with the mechanics, but the problematic electrical systems

Now Im about bums on saddles, and a product that is worth the money people are paying for it, because even £999 is a great deal of money to many people, and i would like to think my advice is going to point them in the direction of what they want, but is good enough to make that investment worthwhile
You on the other hand seem incapable, despite the reams of evidence to the contrary, to criticize hub motors for any of their failings.

It should never be a case of buy and then need to repair, especially as a justification.

People buy cars, washing machines, fridges, lawnmowers etc etc How many of those consumers can repair their purchase ? How many doesnt matter.
It's they shouldnt have to in the first place.

 

[egroover]

Hub motors are great
Mid-drives are great
E-bikes are great
The END.

 

[saneagle]

Hub motors are great

Mid-drives are great X - spelling!
E-bikes are great

The END.

Good effort. I score that 76%. The correct answer for question 2 is Mid-drives grate, so you were close, but your spelling let you down. You must get the spelling right to avoid conveying the wrong meaning. I would have given a half-mark for Mid-drives are meh.

For your homework, go to Reddit and do some reading on crank-motor problems, then write an essay titled "The reasons why crank-drives suck".

If you're wondering why the percentages don't add up, it's because I gave you one point for getting your name right.