Car driver charged with manslaughter over London cyclist death
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Let that be a lesson! I just wish people would take more care, these things can so easily be prevented if people just engaged their brain. That cyclist must have been going pretty fast to die though, or was he injured by other traffic?
You can die by banging your head on the floor whilst tripping over a kerb, so I don't think the speed is relevant.
But reading the article it appears he swerved into the path of a bus. So I also feel sorry for the bus driver as well.
That's (tragically) yet another lesson in the fact that you need to give parked cars a wide enough berth to allow for opening doors. You can guarantee that if you don't, that will be when something like this happens. Drivers don't check their mirrors, kids just come leaping out anyway, so beware.
Very true Hugh, I always do that myself..like lorries, I'm extremely wary of parked cars on busy roads.. I hate those busy roads people use outside houses to park..just rows and rows of cars and some pulling out from behind other cars.... actually find it extremely annoying and dangerous for cyclists, it causes us to have to go further out into the road to get a clear view ahead and also distracts your attention from oncoming traffic as you're having to try and assess every parked vehicle...is it going to pull out, or is it empty etc..
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Sadly easier said than done sometimes, especially so in towns and cities when there's a steady flow of traffic from behind. When you're cycling on trunk roads, often drivers force you closer to parked cars than you want to go by overtaking dangerously close to you. Try to take a primary position in the road and they tailgate you horribly close (often even if you're signalling and intending to turn right up ahead)... sometimes followed by abuse shouted from the window (yes I got it the other day from a White van driver). One hard brake, they'd hit you and you'd go flying. Rock and hard place, basically.
Opening your car door onto the road without looking first is blatently negligent behaviour. Not surprised the driver got charged... would have been more surprised if the whole thing had been passed off as an 'unfortunate accident'.
a few years ago, I was knocked off my touring bike, by an opening door that caught my near side handle bars.....and down I went, but was very "lucky", as there were no other vehicles...
the driver jumped out, and even while I was still lying in the road, accused me of not looking where I was going.......!!
I must apologies for saying that at this moment, I jumped up and totally lost the moral highground!
the driver jumped out, and even while I was still lying in the road, accused me of not looking where I was going.......!!
I must apologies for saying that at this moment, I jumped up and totally lost the moral highground!
I don't think the police are negligent in this respect, though they did appear to be at times in the past. These days the policy is to formally arrest any driver involved in a fatal accident, an action which tends to make the situation prosecution ready, If there's any evidence of guilt as in this case it's then easy to just formally charge the driver without cautions and further interviews.
I didn't really consider the police in my comments - the person opening the car door without looking was clearly negligent.
Sometimes justice can be very swift.
A few years ago on my motorbike I was riding in an offside lane when a BMW driver pulled out suddenly and rammed into me as I was passing. I managed to synchronise speed as he did it and didn't come off, just rebalancing the bike and then passing him with an accusing look directly at him, then taking to the left hand lane ahead of the traffic.
Shortly after he came steaming past at well beyond the limit and I had the satisfaction of seeing a police patrol car glued behind him and ready to pounce, which they did approaching a roundabout ahead.
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The outcome of this trial may prove interesting. The number of successful prosecutions brought for what used to have the more fitting charge title of "gross negligence manslaughter" are quite small, particularly if the defendant has only an ordinary, rather than a professional, duty of care. In this case there seems to be at least one aggravating circumstance, the fact that the windows of the car were tinted so that they only had 17% transmissivity. I suspect that that might well influence the sentence, should the jury find him guilty.
Having worked on a double gross negligence manslaughter case I don't envy the jury's task. Accidents like this are rarely as straightforward as they appear when reported in the media.
Having worked on a double gross negligence manslaughter case I don't envy the jury's task. Accidents like this are rarely as straightforward as they appear when reported in the media.
Sorry, my bad wording in re-using negligent, I wasn't making a comparison with your usage in connection with the driver. My post was just a comment in respect of the "passing off" that you mentioned, to show it is less likely now.I didn't really consider the police in my comments - the person opening the car door without looking was clearly negligent.
Morphix, I'm sorry but I don't think there's any lesson to be learned without knowing all the facts of this case. "Let that be a lesson" sounds almost celebratory and like most readers here, I'm a motorist as well as a cyclist so I'm well aware of how these situations can occur.
The cynic in me thinks that if, as has been suggested, a child threw open the car door, that would be a great excuse in order to mitigate the car driver's culpability. I can easily see how a charge of careless driving or driving without due care or attention might be successfully prosecuted in this case but to actually prove manslaughter, is quite a big ask. A great many instances of wanton, dangerous driving end up being diluted to the lesser offence of careless driving simply because it's very difficult to prove the more serious charge with its far more severe maximum penalty....life, if I remember correctly. Juries get a little reticent about saying guilty in such cases, knowing that the penalty can be several years inside and as most jurors are also drivers, there's a little "There but for the grace, etc" probably comes into play.
Obviously, I don't know the facts but it will be interesting to see how this case pans out and in particular, if there are any witnesses who can actually describe exactly what happened.
Very sad though for all parties, one way or another but if it should be proved that the car driver was at fault, then I hope he is made an example of when sentence is handed down.
Indalo
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The witness these days mostly tends to be a CCTV recording! Probably a good thing, no bias, refusal to attend or emotionally distorted evidence.
Hah; exactly the same happened to me, going up the M1 near Hemel, when a guy in the outside lane decided he really wanted my space in the middle one. Unluckily for him a plain cop car was just two or three behind him and saw it clearly. I didn't bother hanging around as I wanted to go home, but it was satisfying when the lights and sirens came on just for him.
Indalo's comment above in his first paragraph is close to my direct experience. It is far, far, too easy to jump to a conclusion as to the degree of culpability in cases like this. There are almost always a multitude of factors that combined to cause the accident, and the media will only tend to report those they think are newsworthy (which, in my view, tends to mean sensationalist or highly emotive).
The guilt or innocence of this accused will hinge on whether or not the jury conclude, beyond reasonable doubt, that he failed to meet the duty of care each and every one of us has to each other. This is quite a tough test for a private individual that's not acting in a professional capacity, and will depend on the juries view of whether or not the accused acted reasonably in the circumstances, as they were known to him at the instant that the accident occurred.
For example, if he flung open the door without looking, then he probably failed in his duty of care, but if he opened the door without being able to have reasonably seen the cyclist coming he may not have failed in his duty of care. If the door was actually opened by a passenger, then it comes down to the degree of responsibility that the driver could reasonably have for the passengers actions.
Negligence is messy and very rarely straightforward, and it is rare for the media to present either all the evidence or even an unbiased précis of it.
The guilt or innocence of this accused will hinge on whether or not the jury conclude, beyond reasonable doubt, that he failed to meet the duty of care each and every one of us has to each other. This is quite a tough test for a private individual that's not acting in a professional capacity, and will depend on the juries view of whether or not the accused acted reasonably in the circumstances, as they were known to him at the instant that the accident occurred.
For example, if he flung open the door without looking, then he probably failed in his duty of care, but if he opened the door without being able to have reasonably seen the cyclist coming he may not have failed in his duty of care. If the door was actually opened by a passenger, then it comes down to the degree of responsibility that the driver could reasonably have for the passengers actions.
Negligence is messy and very rarely straightforward, and it is rare for the media to present either all the evidence or even an unbiased précis of it.
This is a very sad case.
When I'm driving with passengers I always try to make sure they're getting out pavement side, and if not, I use my mirrors and also tell them to make sure the coast is clear. I nearly knocked a cyclist over in Cambridge many years ago and both my kids DID fling the doors open without looking at least once each when they were young. Luckily no accidents. I am very very careful now especially because I also cycle. Maybe offending motorists should be made to take a short education thing which involves riding a bike around for 30 minutes.....
Hatti
When I'm driving with passengers I always try to make sure they're getting out pavement side, and if not, I use my mirrors and also tell them to make sure the coast is clear. I nearly knocked a cyclist over in Cambridge many years ago and both my kids DID fling the doors open without looking at least once each when they were young. Luckily no accidents. I am very very careful now especially because I also cycle. Maybe offending motorists should be made to take a short education thing which involves riding a bike around for 30 minutes.....
Hatti
It'd certainly reduce the number of cars on the road because if they cycle as bad as they drive half of them would be dead within 10 mins!
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