Car driver charged with manslaughter over London cyclist death

[flecc]

It'd certainly reduce the number of cars on the road because if they cycle as bad as they drive half of them would be dead within 10 mins!

And if all cyclists had to drive for 30 minutes in the way that they cycle, more than half would be dead in 10 minutes!

 

[amigafan2003]

And if all cyclists had to drive for 30 minutes in the way that they cycle, more than half would be dead in 10 minutes!

Not really - what would happen if you try to squeeze down the side of a cement mixer in your Land Rover? Not much - maybe a bit of paint missing and a wing mirror on the floor?

Metal cages, seat belts and airbags are a good insurance against stupidity ;-)

 

[flecc]

Indeed, their demise metaphorical to make the point about relative skills.

 

[Mike63]

...a few years ago in Wakefield on a dual carriageway, a wagon driver pulled out to overtake a cyclist, and a car driver who was trying to overtake the wagon, chose to undertake him and killed the cyclist.
The car driver was charged but found not guilty when the judge stated that...
....the cyclist was in the wrong place at the wrong time...

I've often wondered if his family got any recompense for this travesty of justice.

 

[amigafan2003]

I've often wondered if his family got any recompense for this travesty of justice.

Unlikely because to most people - especially the "well to do" - we're an inconvenience at best and a menace at worst

 

[Jeremy]

I strongly suspect that the percentage of motorists on the road who behave carelessly towards other road users is around the same as the number of cyclists who do the same.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that when I'm cycling or riding a motorcycle I'm far more likely to notice the bad behaviour of motorists and when I'm driving I'm far more likely to notice the bad behaviour of cyclists.

I live near a small and fairly well-behaved city, without many cycle couriers and their ilk, but nevertheless I've regularly seen some incredibly stupid and dangerous bike riders. Not as bad as in London, but not far off at times. Equally I've seen incredibly stupid and dangerous car and truck drivers.

I've also seen some very considerate drivers. Just this morning I was riding down a fairly narrow street with a few parked cars down one side. I heard a car come up behind, took a look behind to see a smiling face waving at me to overtake the parked car in front, whilst he did the right thing and stayed back. A couple of hundred yards down the road, just as I was signalling that I was about to turn left at a junction, I saw a cyclist ahead turn right without either looking, slowing down or giving any indication as to what he was going to do. Probably a fairly typical short ride, all in all, good and bad on both sides of the cyclist/motorist divide..............

 

[amigafan2003]

but nevertheless I've regularly seen some incredibly stupid and dangerous bike riders.

That reminds me - cycling home on the dark, unlit section of the promenade cycle route last night only to see 50yr old'ish female cyclist go straight over the handle bars. She'd hit a bench perfectly end on - she didn't even have a flashing light! Amazingly she ended up sitting upright on the bench and seemed no worse for wear when I enquired if she was ok - seemed more embarassed really.

She did mutter something about complaining to the council about inadequate ligting though

 

[neptune]

Here is an incident that happened to me around 1982. I was driving an articulated lorry, southbound on the AI around the Bedford area. It was about 5 o`clock on a summers morning, and there was very little traffic about. Suddenly, up ahead, I spotted a cyclist, riding in the left lane, about one metre from the curb. I checked the mirrors, and signalled right, and pulled into the right hand lane in plenty of time to give him a wide birth. My speed would have been about 50MPH.
As I was level with him, and in the process of overtaking him, a Jaguar drove between me and the cyclist. I estimate his speed to have been about 100MPH. I still shudder when I think about it.

 

[amigafan2003]

He's been cleared of mansalughter.

The judge, Mr Justice Saunders, told the jury: "This is a case where there are no winners. Everyone is a loser."

Yes, but only one is a dead loser right?

 

[Jeremy]

The judge was absolutely right, there are never any winners in cases like this.

I know, from personal experience, that someone who inadvertently causes the death of others bears an immense burden for life, no matter what the verdict of any court. I watched a man go from being a pillar of the community, a volunteer who would offer help to anyone, a commended fire fighter and committed Christian to being a mental wreck, on the verge of suicide, who for years afterwards would burst into tears at the slightest provocation. In his case he wasn't even the cause of his friends death, and that of another, but more than two years of having a charge of double manslaughter hanging over his head was enough to destroy his life, and cost him tens of thousands of pounds in legal costs.

 

[Caph]

Cycling home the other night down a poorly lit narrow side street with wall to wall cars on both sides, I became vaguely aware of something out of place up ahead of me to my right. An oncoming car confirmed it when he drove into an open car door! I think the loud bang was only caused by his wing mirror catching the door. Could have been worse I suppose. As I cycled past the car, I saw the house door nearest to the car wide open, obviously he thought it would be OK to leave his car door open in to the middle of the road in the dark while he nipped back in for something!!! Just when I think I've seen it all...

 

[smudger1956]

BBC News - Sam Harding bicycle death: Kenan Aydogdu cleared of manslaughter

 

[103Alex1]

"The Met Police and the mayor need to urgently launch a major awareness campaign and make clear that car dooring will be automatically prosecuted."

What is the point of doing that when there are no commensurate charges which stick when someone opens their door without looking causing a cyclist to lose their lives. It's significant that no lesser charge was admitted in this case. Sends a signal that the worst that can happen to people risking the lives of others is the grief of a court appearance.

 

[Jeremy]

"The Met Police and the mayor need to urgently launch a major awareness campaign and make clear that car dooring will be automatically prosecuted."

What is the point of doing that when there are no commensurate charges which stick when someone opens their door without looking causing a cyclist to lose their lives. It's significant that no lesser charge was admitted in this case. Sends a signal that the worst that can happen to people risking the lives of others is the grief of a court appearance.

I would lay money that only a small, and probably biased, part of the evidence in this case has been reported in the media. The jury were only out for an hour, which is a very clear indication that the crown could not prove its case. There were several witnesses, we have been told, so why did the jury quickly decide that the driver wasn't guilty?

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that they decided he was not guilty because it was clear to them, on the basis of the evidence they'd heard, that this was an accident for which he was not to blame.

Perhaps there was evidence presented that either showed that the driver did take care (there is at least one report that says he only opened the door a fraction, in order to see behind), or that the accident was caused (again as reported) by the cyclist losing control.

The latter seems possible to me. When you ride around parked cars a lot you always, always have it in your mind that someone is going to open a door on you. Maybe the cyclist saw the door start to open, assumed the worst, tried to take avoiding action and lost control.

We simply don't know unless we have heard all of the evidence that was presented in court.

 

[103Alex1]

OK I guess that's probably true. The guy set off a chain of events on account of not looking (or being able to see properly out of his tinted windows) though, which is sadly very typical of people when they are driving cars and surrounded by their cocoon of protection from the world, and someone has died reacting to his actions. Cycle in busy urban areas as infrequently as you can manage then, and get out on the open road instead ... combine harvesters carreering along unlit single track country lanes and joyriders racing round woodlands permitting .

 

[Jeremy]

It's only my guess, so could be way off the mark. I think we are all sensitised to the way many car drivers and passengers just open doors without care, unfortunately. You often need to open the door a small way to see properly - certainly I do in my car as there is a blind spot in the rear quarter that neither the interior or door mirror cover. If, as reported, this driver did that, yet the cyclist, quite reasonably assumed that the door was going to continue to open in front of him, then I think it's conceivable that he might have swerved and perhaps braked, so, perhaps, causing the loss of control that led to him being killed.

There's a strong argument that says that this accident was caused by the known careless behaviour of many drivers and car passengers, who have conditioned cyclists to anticipate being doored when passing parked cars. Sometimes that anticipation might be the very thing that saves your life, but I have a feeling that in this case it may well have possibly had the opposite effect.

Sadly, many accidents are just that, accidents, with neither party being really at fault, as implied by the judge's comments in this case. I don't suppose this will appease the avid anti-car brigade who aren't really interested in the particular circumstances of this accident. My guess is they will go on howling for motorists to be strung up even if they aren't demonstrably at fault.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's only my guess, so could be way off the mark. I think we are all sensitised to the way many car drivers and passengers just open doors without care, unfortunately. You often need to open the door a small way to see properly - certainly I do in my car as there is a blind spot in the rear quarter that neither the interior or door mirror cover. If, as reported, this driver did that, yet the cyclist, quite reasonably assumed that the door was going to continue to open in front of him, then I think it's conceivable that he might have swerved and perhaps braked, so, perhaps, causing the loss of control that led to him being killed.

There's a strong argument that says that this accident was caused by the known careless behaviour of many drivers and car passengers, who have conditioned cyclists to anticipate being doored when passing parked cars. Sometimes that anticipation might be the very thing that saves your life, but I have a feeling that in this case it may well have possibly had the opposite effect.

Sadly, many accidents are just that, accidents, with neither party being really at fault, as implied by the judge's comments in this case. I don't suppose this will appease the avid anti-car brigade who aren't really interested in the particular circumstances of this accident. My guess is they will go on howling for motorists to be strung up even if they aren't demonstrably at fault.

Good point, but the impression that the witnesses on the bus gave was that he swung the door open. I think that he did the same as us when we got called in front of the Headmaster: We changed the truth slightly to try and make our offences less than they were, hoping that there was no contrary evidence..

 

[GaRRy]

Good point, but the impression that the witnesses on the bus gave was that he swung the door open.

No thats what the report says and as we all know the press always presents the full facts with out changing them to sound more dramatic/interesting

Without being in court or reading through the whole transcript there is no way of knowing exactly what went on in court and anything else is just speculation.

 

[flecc]

Considering the many sophisticated technical fixes that are in cars these days, and with more impending, there could be one for this problem.

A proximity sensor in the car side/rear or door mirror sensing close in line approach movement could easily be devised to latch the door against further opening the moment a driver delatched the door to swing it open. That could protect against many of these door collisions, both with cycles and other vehicles.

 

[Jeremy]

Good point, but the impression that the witnesses on the bus gave was that he swung the door open. I think that he did the same as us when we got called in front of the Headmaster: We changed the truth slightly to try and make our offences less than they were, hoping that there was no contrary evidence..

If you've done jury service then you will have seen first hand that the evidence as presented in court by witnesses and the reports in the media rarely bear much similarity. The jury were ordinary people like those on this forum, they had the benefit (which we don't) of having heard all the evidence that was presented. They very quickly reached a unanimous verdict of not guilty. In my view that is a clear indication that there was nowhere near enough evidence to prove guilt. I can't see how the members of this forum could be better informed than the jury and decide that the verdict was incorrect, when all we've seen is selected parts of witness stories in the media.