Can someone clear the law thing with e-bikes.

[Wisper Bikes]

Absolutely spot on Two Bikes,

EN15194 has not been adopted in the UK yet, but we are all hoping it will be very soon.

Bikes can be self certified, however anyone doing so and then find themselves embroiled in a hefty insurance claim will soon be out of business, if the bike is proved not to comply. BEBA's recommendation is that all serious importers and manufacturers ensure their bikes certified as an ongoing service to their customers. It will help to make certain such businesses are around for a long time to look after, service and supply spares for their growing fleet of bikes on the UK roads.

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

Controversy on Type Approval Regulations for e-Bikes

Latest Bike Europe report link

 

[mike killay]

As far as I can see, the limited 250watt 15mph bike is no more dangerous than an unassisted bike. I fear that large European Industries will insist on the pedelec requirement simply to protect their markets, when the throttle crank drive is logically and from an engineering point of view, the way to go.
If they wish to see more people using electric cycles, then they must be good hill climbers. The British moped manufacturers of the 1960's ignored this and continued to make single gear mopeds. The only result was poor sales and insolvency.
Older people, those of poor physique etc. need every watt of that 250 available at any time required and not the quirky Panasonic system designed to comply with Japanese Law.
For more powerful electric mopeds etc., the existing laws are sufficient. At the end of the day, a motor cycle driven by petrol diesel, electric or even turbo jet is much the same thing.

 

[hoppy]

David, when your bikes are independently tested for compliance, do they test the 250 watt continuously rated output of the motors? If so, how is it done?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Hoppy...I looked at the EN15194 test report for our Kudos KING bicycle. It states that the Maximum power measurement at the engine shaft is 248 watts...Pass. It does not seem to advise how this test was conducted,if you PM me with your home address I will gladly send a copy of the report,it covers not only the max power,power only when pedaling,power off when braking etc etc but sharp edges,frame strength,braking distance,handlebar and stem bending tests,fork impact test,wheel loading and lateral tolerance test,rotational accuracy,saddle and seat pillar security test,pedal security and ground clearance,chain protection test,lighting test,chain tensile strength,bell dB,emission test-EUT,electrical disturbance test-EUT,flicker tests,radiated emissions-EUT etc etc. It really is a very comprehensive test and expensive to undertake,thats why I am campaigning for it's UK acceptance-it will eliminate the poor quality bikes which have in the past given imported electric bikes a bad reputation.
I know flecc and d8veh are interested in such matters and would similarly send them a copy.
Dave Elderfield
MD,Kudos Cycles.

 

[indalo]

That seems like a pretty all-encompassing test. Do we know if any bikes have ever failed it?

Indalo

 

[Kudoscycles]

None of the Kudos Cycles failed the tests but because of the high costs involved we did pre test every bike before submitting to SGS....interestingly I have just received the pass certificates on our Duke and Duchess cycles that we put through TUV,we used TUV because that organisation has such a high profile in Holland and Germany.
Dave Elderfield
Kudos Cycles

 

[NRG]

The EN test allows for a +10% margin so you could have passed at 275W.

Out of interest Mr Kudos what current rating are your controllers?



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[RoadieRoger]

Dave I can`t believe all those things are required for what is in effect a glorified push bike .Well done for anyone satisfying these requirements .Looks as though the powers that be make it as hard as possible to justify their jobs !I could understand if the thing was due to take to the air and might crash on our towns and cities . No wonder the costs are going up , in the end they`ll rise so much not many will be buying them !

 

[Kudoscycles]

RoadieRoger....the costs of these tests are high but we should be pleased that the Germans and Dutch have taken to the electric bicycles in such a big way that the costs can be amortised over a large number of bicycles. In the auto world the German TUV costs are so high that it is difficult for a non German to sell into that market but for some reason both TUV and SGS are well established in China and the costs of certifying the electric bikes in China is expensive but affordable. On our Auto business we import ally wheels from China under the JWL standard(Japanese light wheel standard),this standard is as used by Lexus and Toyota so it has to be acceptable worldwide,including Germany-the standard is inexpensive to achieve. However if we manufactured those same wheels in the UK,to sell into Germany we would have to meet the TUV standard which is very difficult and incredibly expensive for a non German to certify. Therefore if you are a Brit who wishes to sell auto parts into Germany,then get it made in China. Crazy world!!!!!!!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

FYI the EN15194 specifies CRP as;

Continuous rated power continuous (or constant) output power specified by manufacturer, at which the motor reaches its thermal equilibrium at given ambient conditions

NOTE Thermal equilibrium: temperatures of motor parts do not vary more than 2K per hour.

 

[flecc]

FYI the EN15194 specifies CRP as;

Continuous rated power continuous (or constant) output power specified by manufacturer, at which the motor reaches its thermal equilibrium at given ambient conditions

NOTE Thermal equilibrium: temperatures of motor parts do not vary more than 2K per hour.

Mmmm. It must be a static test then, since my own tests on legal motors show powers up to more than double 250 watts with temperature stability. With my tests being in continuous actual climb conditions, the major difference will be the airflow cooling, though I have tested at 24 degrees centigrade ambient.

The evidence of the notional nature of 250 watts is in the on road performances of most e-bikes. They physically cannot do what they are continuously capable of with 250 watts net.

 

[NRG]

Absolutely Flecc. Dave what current are your controllers rated for?



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[torritime]

OK guys. We have had legislation up to the back teeth.Keep talking about this and some GOON will change the law, early for sure.STOP PRESS. All males over 21yrs must make an appointment on or after the 30th of May 2011, at their doctor's surgery for a vasectomy. This will be done on a first come first served basis, please don't delay to avoid disappointment. As long queues are expected. Larger cases contact local equine centre.John