Can anyone recommend a good bike for hill climbing and distance
- Thread starter Jon Timmis
- Start date
Please remember that only the Neo range has had any problems worth mentioning, and the Bosch and Panasonic variants work just as well as any other brand with these systems...though I will accept that dealing with the Spaniards can be "frustrating" at times.
So are you saying that other hub based bikes aren't spoke breakers ? I must admit to liking the idea of having a rear wheel that I can actually fix a puncture on myself, so thinking about crank based systems.
The spoke defficiency seems to be have confined to the first generation of Neo's,and it appears that Emotion have sorted it out now.....got to be honest, i've never experienced this situation with other Hub motors, so I don' thnk it's inherrant to a rear Hub motor but more a "Bad Batch" of spokes.
A crank drive is a tamer ride, but I personally feel it is more satisfying in regards to what a cyclist would expect from a bike...you really can't go wrong with any Panasonic or Bosch Crank drive system- though as ever, that doesn't mean that it's right for your needs-Definitely go out and try several brands (on hills) before parting with the hard earned...
A crank drive is a tamer ride, but I personally feel it is more satisfying in regards to what a cyclist would expect from a bike...you really can't go wrong with any Panasonic or Bosch Crank drive system- though as ever, that doesn't mean that it's right for your needs-Definitely go out and try several brands (on hills) before parting with the hard earned...
I meant that i've never come across one particular model with spokes that are consistently breaking...not that i haven't heard of rear Hub motor spokes breaking at all.
I've also experienced broken spokes on conventional bikes in my time....though only 2 actually, and I was giving them some welly!
I've also experienced broken spokes on conventional bikes in my time....though only 2 actually, and I was giving them some welly!
could we just add, that it happens on bikes / brands that build rear wheels with cheap spokes, they are generally plain gauge and can't cope with the pressures put on them. They don't stretch and this is what causes them to snap.
Its not a wheel problem, its a spoke problem.
If you use quality spokes (double butted, with decent nipples) it won't happen.
Just by way of an example the attached picture is of a wheel taken out of a bike thats been "badly" handled by our couriers. Its from a demo bike, so its done lots of miles with magazines and testers - who generally ride it like they stole it. The rim is trashed as its been very very badly dropped, and the spokes have been stressed more than any wheel thats normally ridden.
No broken spokes.
its not brand specific, or drive specific. Its just a case of checking the details on any bike build.
Attachments
It's brand specific. The Neo Cross is renowned for this problem. My current wheel had a complete rebuild with much better spokes than those supplied by BH, they lasted longer, two months rather than one, but now four have gone.
yes, but what I'm saying is its the brand of spokes, not the brand of bike. You can solve it by changing the spokes on your bike.
what brand of spokes did you replace it with? and were they plain gauge or double butted. The common mis-conception is that plain gauge will be stronger. They are not.
If you are breaking spokes there will be a reason.
what brand of spokes did you replace it with? and were they plain gauge or double butted. The common mis-conception is that plain gauge will be stronger. They are not.
If you are breaking spokes there will be a reason.
it could be a hub problem, but based on the things we've read, the spokes aren't snapping at the hub, so its more to do with them not coping with the stresses. But as BH don't seem to be commenting or wanting to help we're probably not best placed to comment.
However, its not a problem with all hub drives
and Paul, our crank driven bikes are either Bosch or Panasonic.
The Bosch ones are called Macina, and the Panasonic ones are called Amparo. There are various models of each of them.
However, its not a problem with all hub drives
and Paul, our crank driven bikes are either Bosch or Panasonic.
The Bosch ones are called Macina, and the Panasonic ones are called Amparo. There are various models of each of them.
I think from reading the BH Emotion serious problems thread that Paul's spokes are all snapping at the spoke head, next to the hub.
Sorry, should have posted on that thread rather than lead this further off topic.
Spokes break because of metal fatigue. Heat produced by friction at the J bend accelerates metal fatigue.
Spokes are made with cold processes, forging, bending, rolling, the J elbow is where the metal is stretched to form the bend. Starting with a 13G (2.3mm), the bend reduces the average diameter to about 2mm, reducing its tensile strength (breaking force) from 400kgs down to 200kgs for a stainless steel spoke.
The metal fatigue is proportional to the mileage and number of road bumps / pot holes - the front hub motor is suspended, its spokes will never be subjected to much stress. Rear hub motors have very tight fitted spoke holes, not good.
Some bikes have more problems with spokes than others because of the wrong match of radius of the spoke holes and the particular spokes. If in doubt, check that the spokes you choose can move fairly easily in the spoke hole. Powerful motors may have thicker flanges, requiring spokes with larger radius.
The quality of the steel matters but only fractionally. Carbon steel 13G have braking force around 350kgs, stainless steel about 400kgs.
Straight gauge spokes have higher breaking force than double butted, don't be fooled by the spiel. It's all physics, nothing to do with brands.
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all good science... but not that relevant or correct in the real world of actually riding bikes and building wheels. Sometimes science is great, other times its best not to over complicate things.
I've been building wheels for 20 years and they have been used by some of the UK's most aggressive road and offroad cyclists.
cheap spokes snap... and cheap plain gauge ones are worse for it, because they don't stretch and flex like spokes are designed too.
So its nothing to do with the strength of the spoke. Its down to its ability to absorb flex.
Bad wheel builds also cause spokes to snap at the spoke head, if the spokes aren't seated correctly, or the head has been overly manipulated to get it to seat correctly.
Either way if a spoke is snapping, I can assure you that using a quality spoke and a good wheel builder will fix the problem.
and I'd happily accept the challenge is someone wants to send me the wheel to fix.
Your post implies Paul Newport's bike has poor quality wheel or spokes or both.
There are lots of Chinese bikes out there without ever experiencing spoke breaking, so the issue is not 'poor quality' spokes.
Good products use good material and workmanship, I am not arguing about that.
My point is about why it happens to Paul and many others.
Paul has had his wheel professionally rebuilt with quality spokes and yet the problem has not quite gone away.
My suggestion is to stay away from rear hub motor if you want to do a lot of miles.
There are lots of Chinese bikes out there without ever experiencing spoke breaking, so the issue is not 'poor quality' spokes.
Good products use good material and workmanship, I am not arguing about that.
My point is about why it happens to Paul and many others.
Paul has had his wheel professionally rebuilt with quality spokes and yet the problem has not quite gone away.
My suggestion is to stay away from rear hub motor if you want to do a lot of miles.
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I'm going to reply to the points on the more relevant thread, which is this one
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bh-emotion-serious-problems.15973/
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bh-emotion-serious-problems.15973/
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