Can anyone recommend a good bike for hill climbing and distance

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi, eddie... I take it that comment is aimed at me.

I made one post about KTM... the rest have been about the commute, which I happen to have lots of personal experience off. Would you rather I set up a personal account and posted under that to help Jon out with a bit of advice based on my first hand experience of commuting in the area?

and Jon also called our office and had we had a good chat with him.

I'll back off, because Jon has our direct contact details, because clearly I've given some the wrong impression, and I was just trying to be helpful.

Jon is actually going to a store today, so he'll have had impartial advice about many brands of eBike, and I'm sure he'll have made an informed decision and chosen a bike thats right for him.

We were only trying to help because we were so local to him. We're never desperate for a sale....

we're only on here quite a bit at the moment because we're uploading all our bikes to the database.

Col.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Col,

I have been a member of the forum for several years, both as a regular member and for the last couple of years as a trade member.

I quite understand just how annoying it gets when trade members are all over someone who expresses an interest in buying a bike, and although I have been guilty of this myself on occasion, I do try to resist the temptation as the 'hard sell' does not go down well and is big turn off for some members.

Indeed, I was the first trade member to respond in this thread, but that was because one of those bikes you dislike got a mention quite early on.

When everyone else started to pile in ad nauseum I started to wish I hadn't posted at all.

On the other hand, I also quite understand how your local knowledge could be helpful to Jon.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Jon,unless I have missed something you don't state the type of bike you want,how much you want to pay,how much do you weigh,how tall are you ?
Don't be put off by Chinese bikes,it's like trying to judge a book by its cover,most of the parts are Chinese supplied (anything Shimano is Chinese and I was surprised that the latest batch of Nuvinci hubs also came from China).
There are some awful bikes in China but most of these are sold to Chinese nationals....our group of companies now buy from over 70 suppliers in China...their auto alloys are considered now as the best in the world.
It's no longer a very cheap labour area,that has gone to Vietnam and Cambodia,but it is a country that has invested in research and tooling.
The journey you propose can be covered by any e bike that has minimum 350 watt hours of battery.
You should be able to buy a nice bike to do your job under £1500....other postings have noted the hill climbing abilities of the BPM motor,this motor is fitted to many of the BH bikes and the Kudos Arriba,Tornado and the new 29er Typhoon and Escape models....it made me realise that it reduced the advantages of the crank drive bikes with their power transmission problems.
KudosDave

 

[Jon Timmis]

Using Google go to "Get Directions",select their beta bike route then type in Halifax and Leeds and it comes out at 18miles:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Hi There,

The quickest route is the 18miles yes but I am looking to take the best route for biking to conserve my energy and the bikes (I want to pedal unassisted as much as I can).

I was going to the cycle to Bingley and pick up the canal from there which was where the 25miles comes in as I will be going out of my way to ensure I go along the flattest route with the smallest amount of road usage (so little traffic even in rush hour).

The other alternative I was thinking of was picking up the canal at Rodley which would mean cycling through Bradford but that is not too bad. Also this would still mean a flat route to Leeds City Centre and missing out a good portion of the rush hour traffic.

 

[shemozzle999]

Hi Jon,

Now you have piqued the dealers interest it looks like you are in need of a demo bike for a weekend trial so you can try out the alternative routes

 

[Jon Timmis]

From yesterday here are the bikes I tried by the way:

A2B Metro
AVE TH
Wisper 905 Classic
Storck Radar
Conversion Kit on a KTM Ultra

I knew the A2B was basically a moped but I wanted to try it.

I know some people would love it as (for a moped) it feels light and nippy on the road. Of course it you can also take it in the cycle lanes, on trains (if you can carry all 39kg+ on to there) etc. Also no road tax, MOT's etc.

Personally I did not like it as it was really too much moped style and at it feels like you are pulling a car along when to try and use it as a bike on anything other than the flat.


As for the AVE it was lovely and smooth, had good power up the hills and felt very well made from the Bosch motor to the frame itself.

I really liked this one and I felt like I would feel comfortable on a such a long ride on it I am sure.

The Wisper was good too but not anywhere near as smooth for the power coming in. As well as this going over bumps and potholes was not anywhere near as comfortable and even with the NCX I don't think it would have been as nice a ride as the AVE.


The Storck Radar seemed to have good power and it was fed in quite smoothly but, though it was not actually that heavy, it felt somewhat sluggish and unwieldy as a bike without the power assist.


The KTM with the conversion kit however felt great. The kit was light and the controls responsive. Cycling without the power assist was a breeze and felt just like it would be normally with no motor/battery etc. The only time you felt the extra weight was in cornering when the extra load did pull the bike down more as you leaned in. The kit certainly had enough power too so it should be fine up the hills.

Being a kit it also means that I can choose my own bike/frame style and that I could switch these over if I was to change/upgrade my bike without having to change over the whole thing.


Personally I think I won over by the idea of the kit, just thinking about which one to get and if I should get the kit on my current Scott Aspect MTB or change to a hybrid.

Before I make I mind full I think, as shemozzle999 said I should take the shops conversion kitted bike for a few days to test.

 

[Jon Timmis]

Thanks for all you help so far guys.

I have tried a number of different bikes now and read a lot a reviews. I am surprised at just how good all the bikes were and how good they looked.

Like a few people have said it is all about personal choice as to which one fits you best.

For me I guess I suppose one of the main things pushing me down the conversion route is that I have always been a "sunny day" cyclist at best and just ridden what ever bike I had or could get cheap. Having now ridden a number of normal bikes to test and a number of ebikes I think I would prefer to go with the wide choice of normal bikes and one of them retro fitted in a way that I unclip the battery an controller units should I choose and leave myself with a brilliant human only powered bike only the additional weight of the motor should I choose to do so.

In my thanks I also want to include the retailers.

I get what some people are saying but I value there opinion too and I expect them to stand up for their own products. Having spoken to couple of the guys myself I do believe they believe in their products and all have something positive to add. Also having worked in retail for many years previously myself I know that if they were not doing everything they could sell, especially in the end of Jan which is a the most quite period of the year normally, then they would not be round for long.

 

[Artstu]

For me I guess I suppose one of the main things pushing me down the conversion route is that I have always been a "sunny day" cyclist at best and just ridden what ever bike I had or could get cheap.

Can you really bring yourself to do this day in day out in all weathers? When you say 'swap your car for an ebike' is the car being sold?

I'd forget the canal and take the direct route, have you a route map and profile you can share? a quick route from Halifax to Leeds has it at 17 miles and 1400 feet of climbing, on my bike I'd be able to do that in around 45 mins using around 300 w/h each way.

You need a reliable bike, if going crank drive you really need to look after the chain, and expect to change it often. You'll also need hydraulic disc brakes, and hub gears would be a good idea.

 

[Jon Timmis]

Can you really bring yourself to do this day in day out in all weathers? When you say 'swap your car for an ebike' is the car being sold?

The weather does not bother me so much as I like walking and have happily walked for six to eight hours in the rain and snow, I just never really went on my bike in it all that

I'd forget the canal and take the direct route, have you a route map and profile you can share? a quick route from Halifax to Leeds has it at 17 miles and 1400 feet of climbing, on my bike I'd be able to do that in around 45 mins using around 300 w/h each way.

A good part of the reason for going by the canal is to miss out on the traffic. I know as a cyclist I can weave in and out of this but having done a bit of city cycling before I know it is the traffic in the way into the city that is generally worst as going faster and tends to have more people changing lanes without looking. The canal will drop me off right in the centre and traffic tends to be a little better there as everything is moving slower and most drives are on the look out more (mainly I guess for people crossing the road without looking)

You need a reliable bike, if going crank drive you really need to look after the chain, and expect to change it often. You'll also need hydraulic disc brakes, and hub gears would be a good idea.

If you don't mind me asking how is the KTM Macina Cross? How far have you gone on that so far?

 

[Artstu]

If you don't mind me asking how is the KTM Macina Cross? How far have you gone on that so far?

It's a good bike, certainly not perfect, but I got it at a very good price. I've done around 1800 miles I think.

Here are some issues to take account.

The rim brakes aren't that good in the rain, they cover the bike in black stuff, they wear the pads very quickly, and no doubt the rims too.

The hub gears and wider chain suit crank drive better than derailleur systems, but the chain still wears quickly with all the power it has to cope with. I've fitted a chain tensioner to mine, it is essential IMO, it makes taking up the play quick and easy. I replaced the first chain at about 1500 miles.

With the standard speed restrictor the bike was barely faster than my old training bike on some routes, now it powers to 32 mph that isn't an issue. I had to gear it up a little to take advantage of those speeds. An 11-speed hub would be better in that respect.

The hub geared Bosch bikes are power/torque limited to save the hub compared to derailleur ones, I'm perfectly happy with the power it gives though.

The small 300 w/h battery can be all used up in just 16 miles in hilly terrain. Once you've got used to full assistance it is very hard to bring yourself to turn the power down. I now have a 400 w/h battery as well to allow me to go a bit further.

Before I got the bike I only cycled on the flat due to a long term illness, now I can go anywhere even though I limit the power I put in.

The Bosch system with the speed tweak does exactly what I wanted an e-bike to do, for me it really is a joy to ride.

 

[trex]

jon,
If you like the idea of a kit, I would recommend the 8-Fun BBS01. Get the 36V 20A if you can. I have the 15A but it's good enough for my need.
It is not restricted, will climb 16% hills around Halifax with ease and blitz the 25 mile trip in about an hour and a half.

 

[Mat Dibb]

The bike in that test was the Jarifa Premium with Xion motor and 15.5Ah battery pack. A more comfortable option for use on the road is the Pro Connect X27 - I expect that would thrash the KTM as well, and comes with lights, mudguards etc as standard.

Hi all,
I'd like to support Tim in his comments regarding the Pro Connect X27 with regards to hill-climbing and generally.
I commute most days between Witley and Fernhurst in Surrey on one, which as anyone who lives locally will know is a countryside route with some massive hills. I am a regular (non-e) mountain biker so I'm not scared of hills but I'd have say that I wouldn't tackle hills of this nature on a daily basis on a non-powered bike in work clothes!
Wheras the Pro Connect X27 makes mincemeat of the hills in almost total silence with no fuss. I have been commuting this route since the end of Nov '13 and have never used any other than the large chain ring...
Couldn't recommend it highly enough. Even on full power, I ride 12 miles each way and still have 20 miles in the tank when I get home - and I don't even need a shower! Test ride one today.

 

[Paul Newport]

The BH Emotion Neo Cross is a great bike when equipped with the 12ah battery and should do a round trip. I have only driven one twice and was impressed. Not cheap at £2,200.

A cheaper way to go could be a Freego Hawk or Eagle equipped with a 16ah battery. The range is stated as 50 miles. I rode a 10ah Eagle before buying my Bh City 700 and it easily gave me 30 miles and I weigh 15st 10.

I can JUST do a 20 mile round trip on a Neo Cross Emotion with the original battery with I think was 8AH. My journey is extremely hilly. So the upgraded battery should just about do 24 miles. Bear in mind the charger for the battery is extremely noisy and if you are charging at work you'd better have understanding colleagues. Also as the battery is integrated into the frame it's probably of a lower capacity and more expensive to replace than more standard battery installs.

Personally I can't recommend the Neo Cross as although it's a lovely and powerful bike to ride I've had no end of reliability problems (spokes, spokes and spokes !)

 

[Emo Rider]

I can JUST do a 20 mile round trip on a Neo Cross Emotion with the original battery with I think was 8AH. My journey is extremely hilly. So the upgraded battery should just about do 24 miles. Bear in mind the charger for the battery is extremely noisy and if you are charging at work you'd better have understanding colleagues. Also as the battery is integrated into the frame it's probably of a lower capacity and more expensive to replace than more standard battery installs.

Personally I can't recommend the Neo Cross as although it's a lovely and powerful bike to ride I've had no end of reliability problems (spokes, spokes and spokes !)

The standard Samsung for the Neo is 9ah. It is puzzling that you only get 20 miles. I have an 8ah Panasonic in my BH City 700 and routinely get 40 to 45 miles. I weight 15 stone 10 and my daily commute is not that flat. I do tend to use much less power on my return trips home (14 mile round trip).

 

[Paul Newport]

The Neo is a completely different beast to the City though. It's got a large and powerful hub motor as opposed to the crank based motor in the 700. When I mean steep I mean really steep; the elevation change over the trip is around 800 feet including the notorious Constitution Hill in Bristol. I'm 14 stone 3. If I forget to charge it overnight it will do the 10 miles back into work just, as long as you are on the lowest power setting (ECO) which is pretty tough on my knackered knee (which is why I ride an electric bike in the first place).

If I could get a bike that did 45 miles that was reliable I'd snap it up.

 

[Paul Newport]

Hi all,
I'd like to support Tim in his comments regarding the Pro Connect X27 with regards to hill climb I ride 12 miles each way and still have 20 miles in the tank when I get home - and I don't even need a shower! Test ride one today.

How hilly is the ride and also, how loud and portable is the charger ?

 

[Emo Rider]

The Neo is a completely different beast to the City though. It's got a large and powerful hub motor as opposed to the crank based motor in the 700. When I mean steep I mean really steep; the elevation change over the trip is around 800 feet including the notorious Constitution Hill in Bristol. I'm 14 stone 3. If I forget to charge it overnight it will do the 10 miles back into work just, as long as you are on the lowest power setting (ECO) which is pretty tough on my knackered knee (which is why I ride an electric bike in the first place).

If I could get a bike that did 45 miles that was reliable I'd snap it up.

Not doing anywhere near that kind of elevation. Have you considered a 16ah Freego. £1099 with their £100 cash back offer. It would do better than 20 miles.

 

[Paul Newport]

I'd rather not go with a hub based bike due to problems I've had with spokes breaking and also the difficulty of changing tyres on a hub based bike (for me anyway).

 

[D8ve]

The BH. Race with 36v 12 amp battery will easily do bradly stoke to calverton down and back again . Bristol North of river on top of hill to bath south of the river on top of the hill. A good 38 mile round trip.
But this model is no longer available. A Sh one on eBay May be around. Otoh the new bosh drive is supposed to be better?

 

[Tim]

If I could get a bike that did 45 miles that was reliable I'd snap it up.

Any Kalkhoff model with a 15Ah battery pack will cover that distance. The 17Ah gives an even wider safety margin. Worth bearing in mind that the Kalkhoff Impulse and Xion battery packs are rated for 1100 charge cycles rather than the usual 500.