Can anyone compare these two bikes.

[Wisper Bikes]

Mi Rider state...

"The thumb throttle can provide a boost from a standing start up to 6km/h (4mph). When continually pedalling the thumb throttle can be used to provide a power maximum power boost, taking the bike up to the maximum speed limit of 25km/h (15.5MPH). If the rider stops pedalling, the throttle boost drops off to 6km/h (4MPH) only. To retain throttle boost, the rider must continuously pedal the bike at the same time as applying the thumb throttle."

This as far as I can see is correct, the only thing they miss out is the rider should not be on the bike when they activate the thumb throttle, however as said previously, who would take a rider to task for this?

All the best, David

 

[guerney]

There seems to be some confusion regarding BOOST buttons.

Legally there is no such thing as a BOOST button or throttle to get the rider moving without pedalling on an EAPC. To use the 4mph boost or throttle the rider should not be seated on the bike, it's a walk along mode. However, many riders use this facility to give themselves a quick boost to get them moving and quite frankly who is going to care? The reason that the walk along facility is there at all is as follows: When the throttle was outlawed, we (the pro throttlers) argued that electric post trolly vehicles had a walk along facility to help postmen all over Europe to move the post. If the throttle was going to be removed all together it would effectively outlaw all these post trollies. So... we were allowed to keep the walk assist up to 4mph, it is not a BOOST button or throttle.

Throttles can be fitted legally to an EAPC through the Type Approval process, but strictly speaking any bike that can propel the rider along at any speed without turning the pedals is illegal unless it has been certified Type Approved.

All the best, David

I miss my throttle - after this forum clarified pedelec law for me, I removed it to make my ebike conversion UK legal, but I felt safer zooming around roundabouts and hill starts were easier with the throttle. Walk assist is useless for hill starts on my bike, unless I am on the lowest possible gear, because PAS takes rather a long time to re-start. This is due to the long unpowered pause (or long power decay) after walk assist has ceased - there isn't a setting to address that in the bbs01b's firmware, that I can find. I haven't watched a Queen's Speech for many years, but I will be watching avidly on the 10th of May to hear if escooters - vehicles operated exclusively by throttle - will be legalised, and write long rambling angry letters to the effervescent Grant Schwepps (he looks excitable) asking why throttles are to be made legal on absurdly unsafe escooters, while remaining illegal on pedelecs beyond 6km/h!!!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I miss my throttle - after this forum clarified pedelec law for me, I removed it to make my ebike conversion UK legal, but I felt safer zooming around roundabouts and hill starts were easier with the throttle. Walk assist is useless for hill starts on my bike, unless I am on the lowest possible gear, because PAS takes rather a long time to re-start. This is due to the long unpowered pause (or long power decay) after walk assist has ceased - there isn't a setting to address that in the bbs01b's firmware, that I can find. I haven't watched a Queen's Speech for many years, but I will be watching avidly on the 10th of May to hear if escooters - vehicles operated exclusively by throttle - will be legalised, and write long rambling angry letters to the effervescent Grant Schwepps (he looks excitable) asking why throttles are to be made legal on absurdly unsafe escooters, while remaining illegal on pedelecs beyond 6km/h!!!

What a good point, I'd not thought of that! I will get cracking on it now!!!

All the best, David

 

[flecc]

I haven't watched a Queen's Speech for many years, but I will be watching avidly on the 10th of May to hear if escooters - vehicles operated exclusively by throttle - will be legalised, and write long rambling angry letters to the effervescent Grant Schwepps (he looks excitable) asking why throttles are to be made legal on absurdly unsafe escooters, while remaining illegal on pedelecs beyond 6km/h!!!

What a good point, I'd not thought of that! I will get cracking on it now!!!

Currently at least, e-scooters are motor vehicles, since they have no exemption in the type approval legislation. A suitable driving licence (group Q) is necessary

Pedelecs are exempted, mainly because all propulsion, both rider effort and motor, is through pedalling, meaning they operate as bicycles.

A fully acting throttle automatically nullifies that exemption.
.

 

[lightning]

The "boost" button on the right handlebar is a
button that you press.
lt's not a throttle

lt will give instant full power from a standstill up to around 4mph whether you turn the pedals or not.
Once the bike is moving, you need to start pedalling.
lf you continue to hold the "boost" button down the motor will deliver the maximum assistance up to 15.5mph (or any speed below
that) but only if you continue to turn the pedals.

lf you let go of the button the bike will revert to whatever assist level you've set on the controller.

lt is different to the mid drive bike with a torque sensor in that you only need to turn the pedals, you don't need to put in any effort at all.

 

[flecc]

This as far as I can see is correct, the only thing they miss out is the rider should not be on the bike when they activate the thumb throttle, however as said previously, who would take a rider to task for this?

Sir George Stanley Waller PC OBE, judge in the Appeal Court in 1980:

When he ruled this:

"A rider either seated on a bike or with a foot on a pedal as in scooting is not a pedestrian"

Case reference: Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Currently at least, e-scooters are motor vehicles, since they have no exemption in the type approval legislation. A suitable driving licence (group Q) is necessary

Pedelecs are exempted, mainly because all propulsion, both rider effort and motor, is through pedalling, meaning they operate as bicycles.

A fully acting throttle automatically nullifies that exemption.
.

Unless of course the EAPC has been TAd.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

The "boost" button on the right handlebar is a
button that you press.
lt's not a throttle

lt will give instant full power from a standstill up to around 4mph whether you turn the pedals or not.

Throttle, Boost, potato, potahto it’s the same and technically illegal unless the bike has been TAd.

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Sir George Stanley Waller PC OBE, judge in the Appeal Court in 1980:

When he ruled this:

"A rider either seated on a bike or with a foot on a pedal as in scooting is not a pedestrian"

Case reference: Crank v Brooks [1980] RTR 441.
.

I assume Tony they are considered a cyclist and not a motor vehicle user.

All the best, David

 

[guerney]

Throttle, Boost, potato, potahto it’s the same and technically illegal unless the bike has been TAd.

All the best, David

I suspected that "Boost" is just a throttle rebranding to increase UK sales, without having to remove throttles first.

 

[flecc]

I assume Tony they are considered a cyclist it’s not motor vehicle user.

All the best, David

In that case the person concerned was a cyclist crossing a pedestrian crossing on an unpowered bicycle. So the question in law was, were they a cyclist or a pedestrian if on board or scooting with a foot on a pedal?

The judge ruled they are a cyclist, stating that only when pushing the bike but not in any way on it were they a pedestrian, in which case the the bicycle then becomes luggage.

The latter would also apply to a legal pedelec of course, and a 250LPM if in Great Britain. However, if an otherwise legal pedelec but fitted with a non type approved fully acting throttle, they'd be a motor vehicle user, having lost the exemption.

The moral? Stay away from the courts!

I strongly suspect that Grant Shapps and the DfT might be getting themselves into a persisting legal mess by legalising e-scooters if they exempt them from motor vehicle law in any way.
.

 

[Nealh]

Shakespeare could compare these two bikes .......... to a summers days.

 

[guerney]

The reason that the walk along facility is there at all is as follows: When the throttle was outlawed, we (the pro throttlers) argued that electric post trolly vehicles had a walk along facility to help postmen all over Europe to move the post. If the throttle was going to be removed all together it would effectively outlaw all these post trollies. So... we were allowed to keep the walk assist up to 4mph, it is not a BOOST button or throttle.

If e-scooters are made legal, might postmen in the UK be encouraged to demand a faster "Run" facility?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Shakespeare could compare these two bikes .......... to a summers days.

But which one is more lovely and more temperate?