Can anyone compare these two bikes.

[soundwave]

thats from a canyon 6k fs shimao mid drive bike and the free hub is toast, it is the cheapest crap on the market sub 20 quid and shite bearings it did not make 1000 miles on a bike that cost that much money.

as always profit over performance for the sake of 30 quid more it would not happen.

has the new local ebike shop got one in stock, nope, dont sell anything like that

 

[lightning]

Well, so far l've done 3,000 miles on my "unmitigated piece of crap" Kona Mid-Drive ebike, and l have to say it's the most fun l've ever had on a bike, unmitigated piece of crap or not.

Hopefully the fun will continue for some time yet. The motor and transmission has so far been fine, although l am currently on the third chain and second cassette.

 

[soundwave]

he has a dongle and takes it to the forest of dean bike park and does the black runs on it so dont help much if it is the cheapest free hub you can get.

will have it sorted in a couple of days tho as thought it was his motor but could see the cassette moving while going up and down the gears not good for the chain or cassette.

i broke my xd driver up the forest but the part had 2 years warranty so got a new one and never had that problem again.

it took a hour to get it off and the bearings was gray paste

 

[georgehenry]

This is the hub that the guy who built my rear wheel used. I specified that I wanted it as strong as possible!https://www.colyfordcycles.uk/components/brakes/rr-hub-dt-540-36h-bk-135mm-6bt-black-36-hole-135-mm-qr__18438

 

[soundwave]

sound wave
7 hours ago
top tip if ur shimano motor goes wrong out of warranty just throw it in the bin and buy a new one for 1k because shimano has made them all non serviceable and brick the motors if you open them up.



5 thumbs up so far.


lushbikes
4 hours ago (edited)
just had this exact problem after a few 1000 miles that e010 error code ie battery connection problems it could be a new battery could be a new motor could be the speed torque sensor what cant be fixed it is a code that doesnt tell you whats knackered just cuts power to the motor when putting pressure on the crank so folks it you buy a shimano motor put 500 quid a year away ready for your motor going after a few 1000 miles
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1

if it was me id take shimano to small claims court as it is not fit for purpose and totally unactable for items that cost this much money.

peter did service these motors and worked fine until shimano bricked all the ones he repaired blamed him for it and had to replace all the motors he opened up and cost him a fortune to boot as why he will not service them anymore.

dont forget he also had to make all the bearings for those motors and a min order for each one is 1000 units and there are 8 of them in the e8000.










REPLY

 

[soundwave]

This is the hub that the guy who built my rear wheel used. I specified that I wanted it as strong as possible!https://www.colyfordcycles.uk/components/brakes/rr-hub-dt-540-36h-bk-135mm-6bt-black-36-hole-135-mm-qr__18438

it is the free hub that the cassette sits on what has failed the ring that holds the paws in place snapped so it was only engaging with one of them and as it is a 12spd cassette it has totaled the bearings as it is really stiff to move buy hand.

the wheel hub and bearings are fine he just needs a new freehub and will be back on the road.

 

[Andy-Mat]

Dirt bike not E-Bike. I was using the o-ring/x-ring analogy.

Thanks.
Such a chain, if used by someone like yourself on a mid motor e-bike, would probably not survive the 500 miles!
Andy

 

[soundwave]

Thanks.
Such a chain, if used by someone like yourself on a mid motor e-bike, would probably not survive the 500 miles!
Andy

i dont need to replace my chain every 500 miles because it keep it clean and lubed since 2014 i might have bought about 6 and only on my 2nd cassette as they cost £220.

rrp for gx 12spd chain is 30 quid a motor bike chain cost about the same bottom end and just shows what a rip of mtb chains are and sod the ebike ones there is no difference.

SRAM PCXX1 Eagle 12 Speed Chain | Chain Reaction

Buy your SRAM PCXX1 Eagle 12 Speed Chain from our Chains range at CRC. £66.99. Free delivery available.

www.chainreactioncycles.com

that has hollow pins so a big no for any ebike as will chew it to bits and bend the pins so fast you wont believe it and all you save in waight is 2g.

 

[soundwave]

this was listed on ebay and won it for 140 quid and listed as near mint condition and it did look good until you moved the bottom cage and felt like broken glass inside the spring and still had a nice supply of water in the bearings in the jockey wheels so they was toast and a new sram set about 70 quid all because he cleans his bike with a fkn jet wash so nice and clean and totally screwed if i used it in that condition so had to service it and cost him 40 quid so got it for 100 and fitted my metal jockey wheels so they wont fkn explode

 

[nigelbb]

I think one of the real benefits of a mid-drive e-Bike is that it has a torque sensor rather than the cadence sensor of most hub drive eBikes. This gives a much more natural feel to the eBike just like your legs are more powerful. However it is not necessary to have a mid-drive to have a torque sensor system. I have a Wisper 705 torque rear hub drive & I much prefer the feel when riding it. The power kicks in as soon as you press the pedal from stationary not after half a rotation of the pedal as with cadence sensor.

 

[lightning]

l wonder why none of the posh e-mtb manufacturers have gone with hub drive then.

l guess it's because the motor doesn't drive through the gears.

 

[lightning]

peter did service these motors and worked fine until shimano bricked all the ones he repaired blamed him for it and had to replace all the motors he opened up and cost him a fortune to boot as why he will not service them anymore.

This is truly appalling and not good news for anyone (like me for instance) who has a Shimano motor in their expensive e-mtb

l will just have to hope that mine doesn't fail. And what happens to all the £4,000+ bikes when Shimano decide to stop making these motors?

You can't fit a different motor, it's not like a hub motor where you can just change the wheel.

One question how did Shimano "brick" the repaired motors? ls it some sort of anti tamper software?

l just checked online
There is a company in the U.K. called "emoter repairs" that's offering service/repair to shimano motors. Well, some repairs anyhow

 

[Andy-Mat]

This is truly appalling and not good news for anyone (like me for instance) who has a Shimano motor in their expensive e-mtb

l will just have to hope that mine doesn't fail. And what happens to all the £4,000+ bikes when Shimano decide to stop making these motors?

You can't fit a different motor, it's not like a hub motor where you can just change the wheel.

Depending upon the materials used in the frame, a clever person may design a way to completely replace that area of the frame, for a part that will acceppt a different make/model of mid motor. Or they may make a standard bottom end so that a hub motor may be used.

One question how did Shimano "brick" the repaired motors? ls it some sort of anti tamper software?

The fine details will be a well hidden company secret, but probably something like using RAM storage, (which loses its contents if power fails) to contain important proprietry information.

l just checked online
There is a company in the U.K. called "emoter repairs" that's offering service/repair to shimano motors. Well, some repairs anyhow

Some companies apparently like to lead their customers around by the nose, plucking Euros, Pounds and Dollars at the same time from their pockets.
They are really just legal "Pickpockets" IMHO.
A purchaser must simply make his own mind up at the point of sale, as to what he will accept or not. It's his/her personal choice!
Some of these companies though, Bosch comes to mind but they are not alone it would seem, have "improved" (made it worse for the customer), with software updates that are basically "forced" in some manner onto the customer's property, without telling him fully why - sadly!
My bet is any company that uses CANBUS or similar to extort its customer base (there are other BUS systems that could be used, i2C comes to mind, which is very cheap and easy to implement), will get steadily worse for the user/owner....hopefully such companies are going to go out of business sooner rather than later.
As the old British saying goes:-
"you pays your money and you makes your choice!"
I intensely dislike such money making schemes on principle...and avoid them whenever possible.
Regards
Andy

 

[flecc]

l wonder why none of the posh e-mtb manufacturers have gone with hub drive then.

Not quite true, it's fashion as much as anything.

From the 1970s to 2001 it was nearly all crank drives with the odd friction drive onto the tyres.

Then from 2002 to 2007 the market switched almost entirely to wheel hub motors, so entirely so that the main maker of a crank drive, Panasonic, discontinued theirs and the runner up, Yamaha, stopped selling them in Britain by 2003.

Then in 2008 two German makers, first Daum, then Bosch, introduced crank drive motor units and the market increasingly swung that way.

They both have the advantages and disadvantages and differences in applications and I've owned both simultaneously for those reasons. The odd sensible makers realise that, notably long established Wisper for example, so they market quality models with a choice of either, satisfying both needs.
.

 

[lightning]

Could you build a hub motor with an integrated gearbox l wonder.

 

[soundwave]

This is truly appalling and not good news for anyone (like me for instance) who has a Shimano motor in their expensive e-mtb

l will just have to hope that mine doesn't fail. And what happens to all the £4,000+ bikes when Shimano decide to stop making these motors?

You can't fit a different motor, it's not like a hub motor where you can just change the wheel.

One question how did Shimano "brick" the repaired motors? ls it some sort of anti tamper software?

l just checked online
There is a company in the U.K. called "emoter repairs" that's offering service/repair to shimano motors. Well, some repairs anyhow

yes it is anti tamper software as dont want you to fix there motors as expect you to just buy a new one if it goes wrong out of warranty and done on purpose.

if peter wont service them then no one can as if the sensors detect if the motor has been opened it will be software bricked and then it is a door stop.

why embn keeps pushing this brand fully knowing this is the case means only one thing they wont crap on there sponsors when some of these bikes cost 10k plus is just a joke.

skip to 26mins

 

[Woosh]

Could you build a hub motor with an integrated gearbox l wonder.

I take it that you mean a choice of gear ratios/speed because lots of hub motors have already got a built in reduction gear box but only one fixed reduction ratio (e.g. 5:1).
Xiongda makes several, but only two speed though:
NEW Double-speed Motor, NEW Double-speed Motor direct from Suzhou Xiongda Electric Machine Co., Ltd. in CN (xiongdamotor.com.cn)

 

[nigelbb]

Not quite true, it's fashion as much as anything.

From the 1970s to 2001 it was nearly all crank drives with the odd friction drive onto the tyres.

Then from 2002 to 2007 the market switched almost entirely to wheel hub motors, so entirely so that the main maker of a crank drive, Panasonic, discontinued theirs and the runner up, Yamaha, stopped selling them in Britain by 2003.

Then in 2008 two German makers, first Daum, then Bosch, introduced crank drive motor units and the market increasingly swung that way.

They both have the advantages and disadvantages and differences in applications and I've owned both simultaneously for those reasons. The odd sensible makers realise that, notably long established Wisper for example, so they market quality models with a choice of either, satisfying both needs.
.

Wisper also offer the option of a torque sensor on their hub drive eBikes for a more 'natural' experience when pedalling.

 

[flecc]

I take it that you mean a choice of gear ratios/speed because lots of hub motors have already got a built in reduction gear box but only one fixed reduction ratio (e.g. 5:1).
Xiongda makes several, but only two speed though:
NEW Double-speed Motor, NEW Double-speed Motor direct from Suzhou Xiongda Electric Machine Co., Ltd. in CN (xiongdamotor.com.cn)

Bicycle gear company SRAM were the first with a two speed automatic rear wheel hub motor. My answer below from a thread over four years ago is relevant to this subject:

"Feb 25, 2018

That Xionda motor is still being sold and it was preceded by one from SRAM as well, though that not as well implemented. I suppose that as usual no-one wants to be first to use a new concept in their e-bikes in case it all goes wrong.

But another factor has been the parallel influx of a number of crank drives from Europe and the Orient, which essentially answer the same climb ability issue. It seems they've been the winners in the market."
.

 

[Nealh]

Any hub system can use a TS BB & controller kit instead of cadence, the issue why most don't use them is the price at about 2.5 - 3 X that of the best cadence system control kits available which tend to be KT & Lishui.