"Brompton weighs in on better battery laws to clamp down on eBike fires "

"Electrical Safety First has drafted a Ten Minute Rule Bill, to be tabled by Yvonne Fovargue MP. The Bill will seek to introduce third party certification for eBikes, eScooters and their batteries to reduce the risk of dangerous batteries entering the market and, subsequently, people’s homes. If introduced, the regulation would see e-bikes, e-scooter and their batteries added to an existing list of products which are already subject to third party certification, including fireworks and heavy machinery.

Conversion kits and charging systems could be subject to new standards too, while mandatory markings on lithium batteries would emphasise to households that they are not suitable to be disposed of in general waste, following many recycling centre fires."

https://cyclingindustry.news/brompton-weighs-in-on-better-battery-laws-to-clamp-down-on-ebike-fires/

"Labour MP Yvonne Fovargue is to submit a 'Ten Minute Rule' bill supported by Electrical Safety First later in the spring, with the aim of helping to "weed out bad operators producing dangerous batteries that put people's lives at risk".

Lesley Rudd, chief executive of Electrical Safety First, said: "The support for our bill by Brompton Bicycles demonstrates how reputable manufacturers want to protect shoppers and their industry from the bad operators in this space who may be producing substandard batteries.

"Our bill will better protect the public, protect good businesses and weed out bad operators producing dangerous batteries that put people's lives at risk."

The bill has also received support from 46 organisations, including the College of Paramedics, the National Residential Landlords Association and insurance providers Axa and Zurich."

https://road.cc/content/news/brompton-boss-urges-crackdown-e-bike-batteries-307817

What they want is to protect their over priced products and to get rid of competition.

Almost all of the fires we read about are caused by abuse and absolute stupidity. This country needs fewer regulations not more. The nutters in society are NEVER affected by such regulations because they ignore all of them. All that will happen is that small producers of batteries will have to shut up shop because the costs of certification will be massive for the small maker.

This insane 'Something must be done' bollox drives me absolutely nuts. It affects more and more of our ability to do ordinary things without the interference of government. Blair's government went nuts on this kind of thing and brought in 4000 new regulatory laws and more or less doubled the laws on the statute book in about thirteen years. . You can't even go up a ladder more than 12 feet without breaking the law unless you spend a fortune on a scaffold. You are not supposed to replace a switch and socket in your own house unless you are a certified and up to date electrician. A pal of mine who worked for forty years installing gas systems and the last ten inspecting installations for BritishGas, when he retired was not allowed to fix a boiler without spending about three thousand quid to get re- certified. Absolute Nanny State madness.

Will regulation stop uncertified batteries being bought online?

What's going to stop people from using R/C lipos powering their ebikes, like we used to.

What's going to stop people from using R/C lipos powering their ebikes, like we used to.

Nothing . If anything comes of it, it will just be more garbage legislation and will be ignored by the people who cause the real problems in society.

What's going to stop people from using R/C lipos powering their ebikes, like we used to.

Probably if you got stopped, the police would have power to confiscate your bike and dispose of it.

This is the bill I think:

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/300bnbc1/the-safety-bill-updated.pdf

This sensationalist BS from the Labour List website:

A fully charged e-bike battery contains a similar amount of stored energy to six hand grenades.

Lithium-ion batteries can cause particularly dangerous fires because they can take and hold far more energy than other battery types. This makes them ideal for e-bikes and e-scooters by allowing longer use on a single charge. Yet few realise that a fully charged e-bike battery contains a similar amount of stored energy to six hand grenades.

Wait till they find out how much energy is stored within a candle! F*king morons. This is the trouble when science isn't taught in any meaningful way in our country and the numpties who get into power have mostly studied sociology or the classics.

https://labourlist.org/2024/03/lithium-battery-fire-mps-vote-bill-law-electric-bikes-e-scooters/

[mention=6303]Woosh[/mention] [mention=181]Wisper Bikes[/mention] comments?????

@Woosh @Wisper Bikes comments?????

1WH = 3600J (Joules) or 3.6KJ.

You know how much charge is left in your battery.

A hand grenade has about 50g of TNT explosive, about 200KJ, about 55WH.

What makes these things dangerous is the speed of their release. If all that energy is released in a fraction of a second (like a grenade), then it can blow up a wall. That's why cylindrical cells are so much safer than pouch cells. Cylindrical cells have a steel jacket container and a slow release gas vent. They burn still fiercely but do not explode like you see some e-bikes on those YT videos.

Edited April 22, 20241 yr by Woosh

1WH = 3600J (Joules) or 3.6KJ.

You know how much charge is left in your battery.

A hand grenade has about 50g of TNT explosive, about 200KJ, about 55WH.

What makes these things dangerous is the speed of their release. If all that energy is released in a fraction of a second (like a grenade), then it can blow up a wall. That's why cylyndrical cells are so much safer than pouch cells. Cylindrical cells have a steel jacket container and a slow release gas vent. They burn still fiercey but does not explode like you see some e-bikes on those YT videos.

I was thinking more specifically about your thoughts on the proposed legislation.

Probably if you got stopped, the police would have power to confiscate your bike and dispose of it.

The bill proposed acts on placing a product on the UK market.

1WH = 3600J (Joules) or 3.6KJ.

You know how much charge is left in your battery.

A hand grenade has about 50g of TNT explosive, about 200KJ, about 55WH.

The real issue is how rapidly the energy is released and whether the containment is made of iron shaped to fragment into chunks of nasty shrapnel.

My 45 litre petrol tank contains 1,508,670KJ, and a thousand pounds of TNT contains 4 million, so my petrol tank is a quarter of a 1000 pound bomb!!! I know which one I would prefer to have set off 30 meters from me.

I was thinking more specifically about your thoughts on the proposed legislation.

I support the idea of certification of batteries albeit with some reserve.

The cells themselves are already subject to compulsory certification.

The issue is there exists in China an important fake industry which rewrap unbranded cells with fake labels. Importers may be fooled to buy unknowingly dodgy batteries.

I think we need deterents in the form of mandated insurance that importers have to take out to protect consumers for when things go t*ts up.

I support the idea of certification of batteries albeit with some reserve.

The cells themselves are already subject to compulsory certification.

The issue is there exists in China an important fake industry which rewrap unbranded cells with fake labels. Importers may be fooled to buy unknowingly dodgy batteries.

I think we need deterents in the form of mandated insurance that importers have to take out to protect consumers for when things go t*ts up.

It's not just the batteries though, they want to legislate for kits too:

It's not just the batteries though, they want to legislate for kits too:

Standardise charging protocol, plugs and sockets, is a good idea.

if the components are safe then there is much less need to legislate the kits.

Tony, I'm not looking to agree or disagree with the main thrust of your post, but I'm guessing you'd prefer to be correct in what you say so I hope you take my correction in the spirit intended?

...............

You are not supposed to replace a switch and socket in your own house unless you are a certified and up to date electrician. .............

Part 'P' of the building regulations does allow some 'DIY' electrical work, e.g.

Best wishes.

You can't even go up a ladder more than 12 feet without breaking the law unless you spend a fortune on a scaffold.

Does that apply to private indiduals doing repairs on thier own houses ?

Does that apply to private indiduals doing repairs on thier own houses ?

I am not certain of that.

Tony, I'm not looking to agree or disagree with the main thrust of your post, but I'm guessing you'd prefer to be correct in what you say so I hope you take my correction in the spirit intended?

 

 

Part 'P' of the building regulations does allow some 'DIY' electrical work, e.g.

 

Best wishes.

[ATTACH type=full" alt="57364]57364[/ATTACH]

Thank you for the correction. I appreciate it. I am sorry for misinforming the forum.

ESF's proposed bill 1.(1)(a): "unless conformity assessment procedures have been carried out by a conformity assessment body (‘CAB’) authorised by the Secretary of State".

ESF's annual report 2020: "The Charity’s principal source of revenue to fund our activities is Certsure LLP, our commercial joint venture".

Certsure's homepage: "We offer industry-leading certification services".

ESF's proposal is a direct appeal for a licence to make money. Certification would clearly inhibit new businesses and technologies entering the market and importantly it's

I reckon ESF did themselves no favours with their Dangerous E-Bike Chargers report claiming that "An incorrect plug is a sign that the charger has not been adequately tested". Very often overmoulded power cables are supplied that are probably separately sourced for the countries a retailer serves, and ESF didn't test a single one of these 'unsafe' chargers or establish which cable UK customers receive.

NB a proper mains plug is essential (link).

I am not certain of that.

Its sounds highly unlikley that no-one is allowed to climb a ladder beyond 12ft without scafolding.

There might well be some circumstances when those in emplyment have to errect scafolding.

ESF's proposed bill 1.(1)(a): "unless conformity assessment procedures have been carried out by a conformity assessment body (‘CAB’) authorised by the Secretary of State".

ESF's annual report 2020: "The Charity’s principal source of revenue to fund our activities is Certsure LLP, our commercial joint venture".

Certsure's homepage: "We offer industry-leading certification services".

 

ESF's proposal is a direct appeal for a licence to make money. Certification would clearly inhibit new businesses and technologies entering the market and importantly it's

whether it would make batteries any safer.

 

I reckon ESF did themselves no favours with their Dangerous E-Bike Chargers report claiming that "An incorrect plug is a sign that the charger has not been adequately tested". Very often overmoulded power cables are supplied that are probably separately sourced for the countries a retailer serves, and ESF didn't test a single one of these 'unsafe' chargers or establish which cable UK customers receive.

 

NB a proper mains plug is essential (link).

Does ESF certify batteries? For cordless tools, ebikes?