Bristol Show

[alex_h]

The impression I'm getting here is that KTM Colin creates a spirit of loosing in the final with Oxygen Emate MTB but the bike he races against is the Emate City and he lost this run not even in the semi finals.

Then the Emate City that won with KTM is loosing in semi finals with Momentum bike. Following KTM's logic would mean that Momentum must been cutting off at even higher speeds then the Oxygen

Now finally having looked at the video to me it sounds like the motor runs almost continuously but I can hear actually motor cutting off in short pulses . This would mean they probably balance these bikes at the cut off speed hence the pulses and the speed is balancing at approx 15-16.5mph. Based on the calculations above this roughly makes sense as the average climb speed seems like around 16mph.

 

[Jimod]

Hold on, I thought it was the electric bike word championships, not the non-electric bike world championship. We need to find a steeper hill so that the motor's on all the time.

Hmm, what we need is a couple of unfit overweight chaps/chapesses riding them up the hill. Make it more like real life ebike world.

 

[D8ve]

Jimod 51 asthmatic and 100 kg. that makes me one ;-)

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Now you're turning it into a slow bicycle race like we used to have on carnival day.

 

[Wicky]

To make it a fair contest draft in identical twin cyclists...

 

[jackhandy]

It was pretty well established qfter last year's Bristol race, that the fastest bike up Park Street will always be that ridden by the fittest rider.

That accepted, most of us treat it & enjoy it for what it is - A bit of fun, accompanied by the usual bitty wanter.

Unfortunately, it just takes one poor loser, passing himself off as some kind of industry guru, to bugger the whole thing up.

Any challenge as to nobbling of bikes should uave been made at the end of the race, not the next day when nothing could be confirmed either way...
But that probably would have made someone look damn silly.

 

[mike killay]

Isn't this race becoming a bit of a farce?
1 Hercules, Titan and the Jolly Green Giant racing heavy bikes up Park Street beyond the level of electric assistance gives a very wrong impression to the prospective purchaser. We have seen the same thing with manufacturers claims that their bike will do 80 miles on super-eco setting before its 6 amp hour battery needs recharging.
2 It is practicably impossible to say what 15.5 mph is without hugely sophisticated measuring devices. Even motor vehicle law recognises the inherent inaccuracy of speedometers.
In a race where an inch is as good as a mile, even putting slightly larger diameter tyres on will help.

 

[Jason Scott]

From the videos the race isn't something I want to see or care about as a prospective eBike buyer. I want an ebike so I can have an easy, leisurely ride, not one where I'm peddling like crazy, bike wobbling around on the road.

I want to see someone whizzing up that hill with their legs sticking out! As unrealistic as that may be

 

[jackhandy]

There's a video somewhere on youtube of last year's open race, where anything goes, and 1 rider is only rotating the pedals for the look of the thing

I seem to recall he was piloting a Bomber.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's a video somewhere on youtube of last year's open race, where anything goes, and 1 rider is only rotating the pedals for the look of the thing

I seem to recall he was piloting a Bomber.

There's also a video of a guy who's bike could go up there at 31 mph without pedalling; however, after about 10 meters his back wheel overtook the front one. so didn't make it to the top.

 

[Kudoscycles]

There's also a video of a guy who's bike could go up there at 31 mph without pedalling; however, after about 10 meters his back wheel overtook the front one. so didn't make it to the top.

D8veh....and I wonder who that was?????
Dave,what is a bit concerning is the lack of spectators in those videos,I asked my guys who attended last year and they said that most of the hill had watching spectators and at the top and bottom was packed.
What did you think?
KudosDave

 

[Marchant]

It was my first time there and I really enjoyed it, but I thought the spectators were a bit thin on the ground for what should have been an established event...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, A bit weird this year. I had the misfortune to crash in front of crowd, but this year, there didn't seem to be so many. On the other hand, there were a lot more people interested in trying the bikes this year, and most of them seemed to be serious about getting one. It was definitely a good show for promoting ebikes. You need to be there next year.

 

[Trevor George]

I was in the very first heat up Park Street and there were plenty of spectators at the top, bottom and sides then. Maybe after they've seen a few races they disappear and look at the e-Bike displays, as the racing is more or less the same even though the later bikes were a bit quicker.
To make it a "spectator sport" the bikes would need to be 10 abreast or have some chicanes, or people regularly falling off over jumps (or the like).

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's an excellent suggestion. You could cover many of the points mentioned above if you made it 5 laps with 10 bikes at a time. Each lap would be a sprint to the top and most of the way down, then a tight slalom for about 30 meters. After a couple of laps, the motor would become much more significant going up the hill because the riders would be tired. The race would then test power, handling and braking plus rider fitness.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Following KTM's logic would mean that Momentum must been cutting off at even higher speeds then the Oxygen

I didn't ride next to the Momentum, so I can't comment on it. All I've said, is that in my heat, the Oxygen didn't cut out and therefore they cheated. There could be any number of reasons why the Oxygen was beaten in a later heat. That's not any of my concern. All I stated was that I thought Oxygen cheated, and the video proves I was correct.

Now finally having looked at the video to me it sounds like the motor runs almost continuously but I can hear actually motor cutting off in short pulses . This would mean they probably balance these bikes at the cut off speed hence the pulses and the speed is balancing at approx 15-16.5mph. Based on the calculations above this roughly makes sense as the average climb speed seems like around 16mph.

I'm going to make this point, because I think it needs making.

If the average speed was 16mph plus, some have worked out 17mph +.... you do realise that the race starts at 0 mph and takes a good few seconds to get up to 15.5mph, therefore by even basic maths... there must be a good few seconds when the speed is considerably higher than the 16.5mph, and thats just the theory. Have ridden the event, thats also true in practice.

In the two heats I raced, both riders set off and speed up quickly to close to 20mph, then it was just a case of who was fit enough to keep that up before the speed dropped back down to the assist speed. The lad riding the haibike (like the Oxygen) was an mtb with knobbly tyres, so he couldn't maintain a speed above the assist very long. I was on a hybrid with faster rolling tyres so maintaining a speed above assistance was relatively more easily than on an MTB, even if riders were of equal fitness.

However the guy on the Oxygen clearly had assist the whole time, and at no point was I going faster than him. So I'm convinced he was assisted right up to 20mph and possible faster. You'll see this clearly shown on my effort in the video. I matched the Oxygen right up until my fitness ran out and I dropped back down to 15.5mph. His assist didn't cut out.

I think I'm allowed to be a bad looser when the evidence stacks up like this, and perhaps I'm the one owed the apology

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Jonathan Camm, the rider on the Oxygen, trained every night for six weeks on a hill similar to Park Street to build up his fitness and strength specifically for this race. He also did general road training for a bit longer than that because he is taking part in the charity event where they do the first leg of the Tour de France. Colin is just a bad loser, and he was beaten by sheer muscle power, and of course, a better bike.

Colin, I suggest you start your training now because you'll look really silly when Jonathan beats you next year as well.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

d8veh...

So you are seriously telling me you believe his motor did cut out, and he beat me by riding above the 15.5 cut out and just powered away from me, because he's trained for 6 weeks?

Or are you saying, we were both under the cut out and he's just got more power?

He might be fitter than me, and I'd be totally happy to have been beaten by someone fitter than me. I am most days when I go riding with my club.

But we'd have to go for a ride on non eBikes to decide that, but as you have no idea how much training I do, or the hills I ride on week in and week out and to and from work most days - I'm not sure how you can make that judgement, and say he's fitter than me, and expect me to believe when I rode next to him, that his bike did actually cut out.

Have a look on a map, I live in Huddersfield and work in Delph. So I ride lots of the tour de france sections every week, I'd not have to train especially for it.

6 weeks training is frankly bugger all, what you're saying he's done is what I've been doing every week for the past 20 years!

Just for comparison,

I had a go at the Hill Climb at the Wiggle Mountain Mayhem the other year, similar distance to Park Street.

316 people had a go... I was 6th. (I'm fitter now than I was then)

http://www.frsystems.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Hill-Climb-4PM.pdf

This was our spin out last Thursday for instance.

http://www.strava.com/activities/155599169

i'm built for sprinting, I can maintain full power and I know how fit I am compared to top UK cyclists because I've raced and ridden with many of them over the years.

this is the sort of commute I do, when I haven't got time to get out on the 75 - 100 mile club rides that happen each week.

http://app.strava.com/activities/139095950

So I still stand by the fact that 6 weeks training wasn't enough to beat me, his bike didn't cut out, and I think the video evidence you produced backs me up.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Colin,were you riding the KTM e-Panasonic hub drive bike?
We all know that it is easy to up the amps to the controller and it takes only a few seconds to change the cutoff speed on the King display,it would only take a few seconds to go back to 15.5 mph. Put a fit rider on such a modded bike and you would easily win the race.
It's also a shame that we are putting professional riders on these bikes,it is out of the concept of it being a bit of fun and all the accusations of cheating have moved it further from that concept.
It would have been a simple matter to check the display settings before the race to ensure that nobody changed the cutoff speed,but even the suggestion of such checks moves the event away from the fun idea.
Such a shame.
KudosDave

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Colin, he must've been fitter than you because he won.