Brexit speed question.
- Thread starter LeighPing
- Start date
What they are frightened of is "being first, being different". Both of these are anathema to civil servants and to a great extent politicians. Doing "the same thing, the accepted thing" means that if something goes wrong, they avoid blame. If they do something different, the blame is theirs.
Back in the early 1980s Britain was a leader in the idea of having e-bikes, so in our 1983 law the limits were set at 200 watts power, thought to be about rider level, and 12 mph assist limit, which had been a common utility cycling speed when Britain was cycling post WW2. Also long ago the Japanese set their pedelec scene with the similar 25 kph and 250 watts, matching their slow cycling conditions. Then the EU followed suit by adopting the same, since their main cycling nations like The Netherlands generally cycled quite slowly.
So the blockage is mainly due to how others cycle. The Dutch are the major cycling nation, 70% cycle, but they famously cycle quite slowly, and the Danish and German utility cyclists don't exactly set the roads alight. That makes the EU quite content with the 25 kph limit, especially since many of them have the S class option if they want to ride faster. And the Japanese have to cycle slowly since in many areas by law they have to cycle on the pavements with pedestrians. China's limit has been at 12mph for many years, also now with the intention of adopting EU law, so once again following what others do. The UK is the odd one out in cycling practice with higher road speeds, mainly due to cycling's revival here from 1980 onwards being sporting biased with little to no utility cycling.
All this leaves our civil servants and politicians unwilling to step out of line and risk things going wrong, which in any case fits well with our long established "Nanny State" inclinations.
This unwillingness to break ranks phenomena is common in business too, company buyers playing safe in buying established respected names, making it tough for even the best newcomers to break into a market. They know if they buy different and it goes wrong, they'll be looking for another job.
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The current Westminster wish to get more people cycling means that the new cyclists are unlikely to be super fit and able to go at 20mph.
Also, there is the headache of the demand for more cycle lanes. The current British fudge re cycling on pavements, coupled with the possibility of new cyclists preferring to go slowly on footpaths means that legislators will not want to increase the limits on EAPCs.
Also, there is the headache of the demand for more cycle lanes. The current British fudge re cycling on pavements, coupled with the possibility of new cyclists preferring to go slowly on footpaths means that legislators will not want to increase the limits on EAPCs.
Quite the opposite, we are alone in having a lower age limit, there shouldn't be any.
As in mainland Europe, anyone who rides a bike should be able to ride a pedelec, regardless of how young or old they are. That's precisely the point of the 15.5 mph / 25 kph assist and 250 watt power limits, so that pedelecs are available to all cyclists.
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While I do see your point Flecc, it is not true to say that the use of pedelecs is available to all in the way that bicycle use is.
There are many different sides to this debate & let's face it, even members of this forum will never agree.
I agree that I would be uneasy about, basically, kids flying down the path on 20mph+ machines, but the same applies to currently legal ebikes. I live in Hull & thankfully I haven't seen this yet. If ebikes do become popular with youngsters, time will tell!
I have full car & motorcycle entitlement, so I can go down any (transport) route I choose. However, for many reasons I choose to use ebikes (I use this term to encompass machines such as my, legal as far as I know, 10yr old CB26 ).
While 15.5mph is fine for pleasure purposes, it would be very useful to legally go a bit faster at times, but not so fast as to 'warrant ' excessive extra restrictions. I'm fairly sure many on here would agree.
For the record though, I don't see anything much changing for the better under this or any subsequent UK government.
Kind regards, Mark
Hi Flecc, I refer to in the UK, not the EU in general, as of course we do have an age limit. This also possibly raises questions about electric 'toys ' that are not currently categorised, don't you think?
While I know our opinions differ, I wholly respect yours, and mine are often based on what I see as appropriate restrictions for sensible / responsible adults such as ourselves & many others on the forum.
Mark
While I know our opinions differ, I wholly respect yours, and mine are often based on what I see as appropriate restrictions for sensible / responsible adults such as ourselves & many others on the forum.
Mark
I thought it might interest you how our age limit came about.
Our 1983 law had no lower age limit but a 12 mph assist speed limit for everyone. Later in order to more closely match the EU we increased the assist limit a little to 15 mph. That prompted the 14 years lower age limit, which was added to the 1988 Road Traffic Act.
I still think it daft, considering how fast many of the kids ride bikes, even at well under 14 years old. Maybe the same daftness that limits adults to 15.5 mph assist?
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Thank you for that Flecc, I must admit I had absolutely no knowledge of that at all, or indeed have a great deal of knowledge regarding bicycle law in general, so will keep my eye out for other nuggets that crop up.Our 1983 law had no lower age limit but a 12 mph assist speed limit for everyone. Later in order to more closely match the EU we increased the assist limit a little to 15 mph. That prompted the 14 years lower age limit, which was added to the 1988 Road Traffic Act.
I still think it daft, considering how fast many of the kids ride bikes, even at well under 14 years old. Maybe the same daftness that limits adults to 15.5 mph assist?
Regards Mark
I know when I was 14 I could get to well over 30mph on a slight down grade and a lot more when it was steeper. 80 mile rides on a bike made of old gas pipes (BSA Tour of Britain for those that can remember them) was a weekly occurance during the summer.
I remember my brother hitting what must've been about 40 on a purple Raleigh Chopper down the 1st part of a steep hill nr where we lived. Unfortunately for him, he completed 2nd part of journey down said hill on his face...
Mark
no speed limit on cars, a ton of metal vs an e bike..who cares anyway as anyone can de limit, so the boring can stay with there limit and rules, and the rest who can think for them self's can just remove the limit...
Indeed they can, and hopefully will get away with it, I'm all for freedom.
But if detected and ending up in court, they'll find it's someone else doing the thinking for them.
And their thinking is expensive.
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And quite possibly to the detriment of all ebike users....Indeed they can, and hopefully will get away with it, I'm all for freedom.
But if detected and ending up in court, they'll find it's someone else doing the thinking for them.
And their thinking is expensive.
Mark
Not at all really. This is exactly what other bikers say of all ebikes. Particularly, those that use the same trails. 30 years ago, the same was said of those new fangled MTB's that they're now riding.
Racing bikes belting along at 40 plus mph don't penalise 'all' other bikes. Why should ebikes?
Whilst being recovered some years back, after a breakdown in my car, I asked the driver, who had 40 years on the job, which vehicle never broke down? He replied "No matter how good they are, we get them all in the end."
Crashes will occur with 'all' vehicles in due course. One or more e-jits won't jeopardise a thing for the masses of the ebike buying community. Kerching! £$£$£
TBH I simply don't understand what point you're trying to make in this part.
It's perfectly legal for people on unassisted bikes to go as fast as they like!
I don't see what vehicle breakdowns have got to do with anything either I, or anyone else has said in this thread.
Again, where in my post do I mention anything about crashes?
My point was that people acting irresponsibly on illegal ebikes could have a detrimental effect on future legislation regarding all ebike users. If your opinion is that this isn't possible, then you are, of course, entitled to it.
Regards, Mark
It's possible in the same way we got a national speed limit.
One person went very fast and the news papers picked it up.
'Public outrage' some thing had to be done.
Politicians react and the new speed limit came into place.
So someone gets up to something stupid on illegal ebike.
Papers start up electric motor bike....' For that's what they are'
Politicians take action to appease the public.
police will not enforce it even if it is law and is atm.
http://www.bikehub.co.uk/featured-articles/cycling-and-the-law/
i think i have broken all of those and im faster pissed
http://www.bikehub.co.uk/featured-articles/cycling-and-the-law/
i think i have broken all of those and im faster pissed
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