Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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"Renewal of the American dream?"
Trump is callous and a disgrace to democracy.
He asked Zelensky for a little favour: "will you look into Hunter Biden for me?"
 
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flecc

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I see it differently. I'm growing fond of Trump and putin. Almost as fond as of truss or Boris. Theyre graduating from creating Ukrainian nationalism to becoming (in the spirit of, ahem, the thread) the fathers of pan European nationalism. In a few years putin will have practically single handedly been responsible for creating a European superstate on his border that spend trillions of euros on defence. Chomping at the leash to squash what's left of his convicts in their corroded ww2 materiel.
What's not to love?
Not differently at all, that is the madness I speak of.

However, now Zelenskyy has swallowed his pride and given a grovelling apology, European leaders will probably have the chance to back down to their usual mode of wait and see while doing nothing, business as normal.
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Woosh

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However, now Zelenskyy has swallowed his pride and given a grovelling apology, European leaders will probably have the chance to back down to their usual mode of wait and see while doing nothing, business as normal.
There is a clear difference this time round. I bet Zelensky won't sign anything until Trump does a u-turn. Zelensky needs to wait 6 months for Europe to ramp up its production. Trump is embattled in trade war with allies and hasn't got 6 months to waste.
shares in European defence industries are at all time high. Today, Eutelsat is up 33%, SES SA another statellite company, is up 18%. TSMC announced a deal to build more fabs in the USA but at the same time, won't transfer their latest technologies to the US fabs, presumably to stop Trump renege on support for Taiwan.
 
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soundwave

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jonathan.agnew

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Not differently at all, that is the madness I speak of.

However, now Zelenskyy has swallowed his pride and given a grovelling apology, European leaders will probably have the chance to back down to their usual mode of wait and see while doing nothing, business as normal.
.
Trump is a histrionic version of truss - zelensky has to play the role of being accomodating, mature for the few months it takes him to tank the us economy the way truss did in the uk
 
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soundwave

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tillson

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If you were Starmer, would you go see Trump this Thursday?

Trump: “I want rare earths, oil and everything else we can get from Ukraine”.
He also wants the right to licence Ukraine's resources to third party.
He basically wants to be paid for all the help Ukraine got from Biden's administration and with interest.
Would you expect Starmer and Zelynsky agree to this?
It’s appalling, but what choice do they have?
 

Woosh

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It’s appalling, but what choice do they have?
They have to play for time. Putin does not have a reverse gear but Trump usually does U-turns.
In the mean time, Europe needs to convince Trump to sell artillery munitions and starlink satellite service to Zelensky, Europe will pay of course. Trump may be attracted by juicy sales. Over the coming year, Europe will launch new communication satellites to replace starlink over Ukraine and increase supplies of artilleries, thus reduce dependence on Trump.
Trump knows he lies on tariffs. He knows his voters are pretty thick to believe that foreign countries pay his tariffs but sooner or later, Wall Street will force him to back track on tariffs on Canada and Mexico. That will lead to a mid-term paralysed congress which stops Trump changing the constitution to let him run for a third term. In 4 years, Europe should be able to fight Putin without the USA.
 

flecc

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In 4 years, Europe should be able to fight Putin without the USA.
There will be no need to. The Ukraine war will have been settled long before and Russia will not start a new war if not provoked to again, and I don't see Europe provoking one, nor Trump.

In 4 years time Europe will be speaking with and trading with Russia.
.
 

Woosh

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There will be no need to. The Ukraine war will have been settled long before and Russia will not start a new war if not provoked to again, and I don't see Europe provoking one, nor Trump.

In 4 years time Europe will be speaking with and trading with Russia.
.
4 years from now? I personally don't see Ukraine be entirely Russian.
Trump may be gone but Putin will still rule Russia if he's still alive.
Who is going to oppose Putin then?
In the meantime, and before the mid term election, Musk and Trump will try to privatise as much of the federal institutions as possible . Musk has an eye on the FAA.
 

flecc

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In the meantime, and before the mid term election, Musk and Trump will try to privatise as much of the federal institutions as possible . Musk has an eye on the FAA.
Agreed

4 years from now? I personally don't see Ukraine be entirely Russian. Agreed, most will still be Ukrainian.

Trump may be gone but Putin will still rule Russia if he's still alive. Agreed

Who is going to oppose Putin then? No need, he is not a threat if not deliberately provoked.
.
 

Woosh

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Who is going to oppose Putin then? No need, he is not a threat if not deliberately provoked.
who will pay for the cost of reconstruction?
 

soundwave

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£2, i paid 32 quid each :eek:
 

flecc

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who will pay for the cost of reconstruction?
Europe will end up with much of the cost, but Russia may contribute as part of a deal they see as favourable to them.

The cost will not be as much as it might seem at present, since many of the huge number of Ukrainians now where they fled too will not return to be re housed and employed.
.
 

Woosh

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Europe will end up with much of the cost, but Russia may contribute as part of a deal they see as favourable to them.

The cost will not be as much as it might seem at present, since many of the huge number of Ukrainians now where they fled too will not return to be re housed and employed.
.
Will Canada and Greenland be 'acquired' by trump? How about the future of the UN?
 
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flecc

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Will Canada and Greenland be 'acquired' by trump?
I've no idea what prompted Trump to say this, perhaps he is becoming envious of the way Russia might gain economically in Ukraine and China might gain from taking Taiwan, so wants to be one of a triumvirate of thieving bullies.

One thing is certain, the USA "acquiring" them would nullify all such accusations against Russia.

How about the future of the UN?
Like the old League of Nations pre WW2, they have no useful future. All they've ever achieved is to help the USA make endless trouble for the rest of us.
.
 

soundwave

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Edouard de Stoeckl, Russian minister to the United States, negotiated for the Russians. On March 30, 1867, the two parties agreed that the United States would pay Russia $7.2 million for the territory of Alaska. For less than 2 cents an acre, the United States acquired nearly 600,000 square miles.

bet you never knew that :p russia dont need anymore land and told trump Ukraine can join the eu but no nato troops or bases.

as its worthless anyway :eek:
 

soundwave

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