Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Putin also needs to stop the war. That has always been in Zelenskyy's power since before the war started, simply by dropping the desire to be Russia's enemy by joining NATO. Zelenskyy even admitted that in his speech three days after the war started by saying, "We might have to agree not to join NATO".

What the hell is wrong with that, agreeing to be a good neighbour in preference to being an enemy for the USA's political purpose?



From the USA's and NATO's constant physical attacks, manipulation and financial blackmail, all intended to create international war where it didn't exist, solely for US political dominance.
Such as in Palestine, Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Libya, Georgia and Ukraine, not to even mention numerous other minor countries in the Americas and their Taiwan intentions.

Until their self defence actions against US led NATO encroachment through Georgia and Ukraine, Russia never attacked any other country during the same 76 years.
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Putin is the only one politician who has constantly threatened nuclear war. Nobody else.
The end result is Europe re-arms and Germany may soon have her own nukes. Good result or bad result?
The argument that Putin does not want any NATO within 300 miles of Moscow is dubious. He could have picked any number to suit his argument. The Baltifc countries, Finland, Norway, Sweden etc are in NATO, Ukraine is not.
Zelensky was elected with 73% of the votes in 2019 because he was pro EU. It was a clear choice between EU membership and Russian federation by the voters.

From wikipedia:

The Russo-Ukrainian War[d] began in February 2014. Following Ukraine's Revolution of Dignity, Russia occupied and annexed Crimea from Ukraine and supported pro-Russian separatists who began fighting the Ukrainian military in the Donbas war. These first eight years of conflict also included naval incidents and cyberwarfare. In February 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine and began occupying more of the country, starting the biggest conflict in Europe since World War II. The war has resulted in a refugee crisis and tens of thousands of deaths.

...
Until their self defence actions against US led NATO encroachment through Georgia and Ukraine, Russia never attacked any other country during the same 76 years.

Self dence? Putin frightens his neighbours for a long time.
That's what drives them to join NATO in the first place.

 

[MikelBikel]

Starkey has a better grasp of reality than Starliner

 

[MikelBikel]

Ireland prepares for war

youtube.com

 

[flecc]

Putin is the only one politician who has constantly threatened nuclear war. Nobody else.

Nonsense, he has not constantly threatened nuclear war. Those threats only began after NATO started installing rocket systems around Russia and later arming Ukraine, effectively the west against Russia, outnumbering Russia over six to one. Making it a sensible and logical response, well deserved by the USA's warlike actions in response to Russia's constant attempts from 1989 to 2004 to have peace with the West.

When are you going to become honest and admit that the USA is dedicated to the destruction of the left wing in politics and communism in particular? That has been their motivation for every action from 1948 to the present and from the crushing of Obama's moderate measures to the slaughter of millions of innocents, they stop at nothing to achieve it.

Self dence? Putin frightens his neighbours for a long time.
That's what drives them to join NATO in the first place.

More nonsense, one by one they were persuaded to join NATO by the CIA's bribery of the benefits of EU membership. Are you so blind that you were unaware of the thousands of Americans working to that end in Georgia which led to that 2008 defensive war? Are you so blind that you were unware of the CIA's euromaidan operation which became the Orange revolution in Ukraine, leading directly to that war now?

Wars cause by the USA's provocations, just like the one they are working towards over Taiwan now.
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[Woosh]

Nonsense, he has not constantly threatened nuclear war. Those threats only began after NATO started installing rocket systems around Russia and later arming Ukraine, effectively the west against Russia, outnumbering Russia over six to one. Making it a sensible and logical response, well deserved by the USA's warlike actions in response to Russia's constant attempts from 1989 to 2004 to have peace with the West.

When are you going to become honest and admit that the USA is dedicated to the destruction of the left wing in politics and communism in particular? That has been their motivation for every action from 1948 to the present and from the crushing of Obama's moderate measures to the slaughter of millions of innocents, they stop at nothing to achieve it.



More nonsense, one by one they were persuaded to join NATO by the CIA's bribery of the benefits of EU membership. Are you so blind that you were unaware of the thousands of Americans working to that end in Georgia which led to that 2008 defensive war? Are you so blind that you were unware of the CIA's euromaidan operation which became the Orange revolution in Ukraine, leading directly to that war now?

Wars cause by the USA's provocations, just like the one they are working towards over Taiwan now.
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you pick and choose events to suit your argument. The USA has its own interests, same like all other nations. However, the rule-based system we have after the second world war is the best we have so far, one that protects the small countries best. The EU is a refined version of that.
US presidents, left and right, GOP and Dems, come and go. Their empire picks up from where the British left. How and why would you expect the UN or the EU to dismantle the US empire even if that were possible?
I had a day out with family yesterday. We were in the Museum of the Home. A small museum in Kingsland Rd, Hoxton. My 6 year old grand daughter was clearly shocked reading the texts on the walls about the role of women of the time, less than 200 years ago. Restricted education, had to give up their career when the got married etc. She had no idea how much we have achieved since the second world war.
Why shouldn't we do the same with diplomacy? Why shouldn't we recognise what is right and wrong in a better world and fight for them?

 

[Woosh]

Starkey has a better grasp of reality than Starliner

Starskey is a dinosaur.

 

[flecc]

The USA has its own interests, same like all other nations. However, the rule-based system we have after the second world war is the best we have so far, one that protects the small countries best. The EU is a refined version of that.
US presidents, left and right, GOP and Dems, come and go. Their empire picks up from where the British left. How and why would you expect the UN or the EU to dismantle the US empire even if that were possible?

By isolation, refusing to take part in or co-operate with the carnage the USA wreaks in its constant wars.

Why shouldn't we do the same with diplomacy? Why shouldn't we recognise what is right and wrong in a better world and fight for them?

Wrong doesn't correct wrong, fighting for right and a better world using mass killing weapons to kill innocents is always wrong. The most effective fight is by example, proving to be the better way.

In what way will continuing the Ukraine war bring about right? It won't, one off the two evils will win, Russia's current version of communism or Ukraine's far right will claim victory for what they believe. Stop the war by any means possible and give all a chance to reach an accord of sorts. Just as US presidents come and go as you said, so do regimes and those two will pass with time as they learn to live together. That is what has made the EU work so well and be such a good example, peaceful co-existence, not war.

War is never ever a lasting answer, it only perpetuates.
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[Woosh]

In what way will continuing the Ukraine war bring about right?

it's rule-based system is the right answer after WW2, continuing with military might is the wrong answer.
Ukraine has been colonised a long, long time by Russians and others.
It now has a chance to be an independent country and hopefully, inside the EU.
Wouldn't you want that if you were born Ukrainian?

 

[MikelBikel]

Good bit starts at 08:00..After the advert.. oh dear, oh dear, and more revelations to come tovarisch!?

 

[Woosh]

Good bit starts at 08:00..After the advert.. oh dear, oh dear, and more revelations to come tovarisch!?

We lend Russian money that we held at the BoE to Ukraine to buy our missiles. What is wrong with that?

 

[flecc]

it's rule-based system is the right answer after WW2, continuing with military might is the wrong answer.
Ukraine has been colonised a long, long time by Russians and others.
It now has a chance to be an independent country and hopefully, inside the EU.
Wouldn't you want that if you were born Ukrainian?

You were in favour of continuing with the war instead of a Trump led peace, haven't I just been maintaining military might is wrong?

Ukraine had the status of an independent country from 2017 on and the chance to be entirely independent when the USSR and Warsaw Pact ended, but they chose with many others** to stay aligned with Russia. A mess of their own making, solely because Ukraine is not a real country, very recently manufactured by others out of divers foreign parts, so governed by those internally conflicting elements. Countries and borders cannot be artificially made, history is littered with their universal failures.

Only about a quarter of the peoples in Ukraine are at best truly from the original very much smaller north-central Ukrainian region, and that having been wholly part of Russia for centuries and within the Russian Steppes geographically, they are arguably Russian nationals anyway.

** There are 15 post-Soviet states in total: Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.

They greatly outnumber those who chose to try to join the EU then, which rather conflicts with the Western image of Russia being so tyranical. You see, I'm not being selective with the facts, I'm stating ALL of them, in answer to selective opinions.
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[Woosh]

Which ones of those ex USSR countries are still happy countries inside Russian orbits?

 

[flecc]

Which ones of those ex USSR countries are still happy countries inside Russian orbits?

Some are, some aren't, but that is irrelevant, like all of us they have to live with the outcomes of their decisions.

I repeat ad nauseum, Ukraine could have been independent since 2004 and still could be even now, though not as intact. All that is necessary is to accept that in this world one it is wiser to be a good neighbour of your immediate neighbour whether you dislike them or not, rather than compliant with an unreliable, bribing bully half a world away, namely the USA.
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[flecc]

We lend Russian money that we held at the BoE to Ukraine to buy our missiles. What is wrong with that?

Everything is wrong and immoral with that, using Russian owned money against Russia in a defensive war. It is worse than theft.
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