Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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Who is going to vote for Johnson? His band of supporters vanishes steadily everyday. Justine greenning was on bbc any questions yesterday, she recounted that when she was put on the list of candidates for the conservatives the first time, the last question was 'did you in the past do anything to put the party in disrepute '. Johnson would not pass that stage. Even Jake Berry is pulling back after being the loudest supporter of Johnson.

When you look back at Johnson's time in office, the UK went through a number of momenteous events: COVID, lockdown, the war in Ukraine and inflation. At each stage, Johnson had to take a crucial decision. His problem is not that he could not see the choices. Being a lazy politician, he took the decision too late and got pushed on to the worse of them. If he had dealt with Covid sooner, in 2019 instead of 2020, he could have steered us toward the Swedish solution. He and DC did see that we could not afford to lockdown in the first place. Then when lockdown came, he tried to please everyone with a pretty generous furlough and grants to busineeses claiming that we have the 'economic firepower'. He borrowed and borrowed. Wrong decision again and pretty important that one was. Plenty of economists warned us then of rising interest rates when covid will be over. Now the housing bubble begins to burst. 6%+ mortgage is here already and will last for a generation. House prices under the conservatives have more than doubled. Who can afford 6%+ interest rate on 500k mortgage? only the top 5% of those in work. That's pretty grim to me.
 
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Woosh

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BBC QT will be at Clacton on Sea tonight at 8PM on iplayer.
The audience voted 100% for brexit in 2016.
How many would now regret their choice?
What do you reckon?
 

Woosh

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it was a pretty forgettable episode of BBCQT. Prof John Curtice decided to make up the audience with 70% brexit and still brexit, 20% brexit now regret + 10% brexit now undecided. The first subject was how much brexit has to do with the cost of living. The remainer camp is represented by Alistair Campbell. His performance was poor. He banged on about people were lied to. Bad tactic, nobody likes the suggestion that they did not see the lies.
 

soundwave

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jonathan.agnew

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Real question is how many will be awake enough to ask "why aren't we *really* out of the EU..?" ;)
I agree, those who voted for brexit should have been contractually compelled to take the kwarteng truss roller coaster with the tory membership to its logical conclusion.
 

flecc

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Real question is how many will be awake enough to ask "why aren't we *really* out of the EU..?" ;)
It wouldn't matter if they did. We had been failing for well over 20 years before we joined the common market, so we know only too well what being out of the EU means. As a member of the European movement we then continued to fail for the next 44 years, and we are still failing now that we are out of the EU.

Demonstrating beyond any doubt that the problem isn't elsewhere, it's right here with ourselves and our institutions.

To begin to solve the problem we first need to get rid of the foundation of its existence, our first past the post electoral system, pitting two political parties against each other, each incapable of agreeing what they stand for since both contain two extremes of internal warfare.

Only if this truth finally dawns on both parties and each split to enable proportional representation, will we have a chance to halt the continuous decline and have an opportunity to succeed.
.
 

MikelBikel

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Getting interesting in Europe now, Italexit, Swexit, Grexit, Polexit..? who's next?
Interesting facts:
Austria has a new "Beer"party (Bierpartei), at 8% in polls :) . I never knew them for their humour!
The Czechs and Luxembourgeois have "Pirate" parties, at 11% & 6% respectively, arr Jim lad;
"Hungarian Party of the Two Tailed Dog" is only wagging at 6%;
While Portugal has a party called "Enough", my feelings about politics in a nutshell. :D
 
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tillson

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it was a pretty forgettable episode of BBCQT. Prof John Curtice decided to make up the audience with 70% brexit and still brexit, 20% brexit now regret + 10% brexit now undecided. The first subject was how much brexit has to do with the cost of living. The remainer camp is represented by Alistair Campbell. His performance was poor. He banged on about people were lied to. Bad tactic, nobody likes the suggestion that they did not see the lies.
Was that the episode with the idiot woman? The one who voted Brexit because people working on her house roof had to wear safety equipment, whereas in Germany and France (where she's never been), she thinks they can work on a roof without safety equipment. Unbelievable.
 
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soundwave

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:p
 
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soundwave

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soundwave

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jonathan.agnew

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Speaking of seeking the truth, anybody know why Ben Wallace is really quiting? For a bloke who voluntarily dropped out as forerunner in a tory leadership race against highly impressive competition like truss, I don't buy the bbc line that it's because Biden blocked him from getting stoltenburg's post (ie i dont think hes as all consuming a narcissist as that). Nor frankly do I buy the vatnic line I was sold yesterday that "their getting rid of him because he exposed natos terrible ammunition shortages" with that throwaway comment about amazon. I guess an obvious answer is that all tory mps must be considering their positions, but as a relatively stable pair of hands (that isn't actively searching for agriporn in the hoc) I'd have thought they'd give him a safe seat en rout to a next tory leadership bid?
 
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Woosh

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Wallace may be popular with the army's generals and possibly also with the membership but on debates, he is pretty wooden. With his experience and contacts, a career outside parliament may be more attractive than leader of the opposition which he may not get. I reckon Mordaunt is better at the dispatch box than he ever was.
 

jonathan.agnew

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Wallace may be popular with the army's generals and possibly also with the membership but on debates, he is pretty wooden. With his experience and contacts, a career outside parliament may be more attractive than leader of the opposition which he may not get. I reckon Mordaunt is better at the dispatch box than he ever was.
Yes, but other than my visceral dislike of mordaunt (how can i put it, her karma comes across as as sincere as, say, gove's), am I the only voter that's getting saturated by the sound bite culture of the likes of her, sunak, starmer following the complete inauthenticity of boris, and looking for someone who isn't as good at a dispatch box?
 
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