Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Peak lopping is not the same as usage reduction.

I keep seeing claims that three hour cuts will reduce absolute usage. Not just time shift it.

Plus, if solar is producing, we actually want a demand peak, just earlier. (Probably either side of noon.) If wind is producing, we actually want a demand peak round about its maximum - though that could be brief or last for many hours.

I can easily shift things like my washing machine usage to whatever time helps. Also, at least some cooking which I can often reduce to a little bit of reheating at dinner time. But they do have to let me know!

View attachment 49080

There's lots of guessing going on that's not worth taking any notice of. Few people today remember or have ever known what happened in the 1970s when we had a very successful cuts program.

I'm sure we we won't be having 3 hour cuts, that's too long and creates wastage as you've remarked.

The 1970s pattern was three 2 hour cuts in each 24 hours in a revolving program something like this:

Day one for a zone:

Cuts at midnight, 8am and 4pm.

Day 2:

Cuts at 2am, 10am, 6pm.

Day 3:

Cuts at 4am, 12noon, 8pm.

Then back to day one repeating, basically losing 2 hours of current every 8 hours. This gave everyone a fair share of the most inconvenient and most convenient cut times. And it did the trick, got us through the crisis.
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[oyster]

There's lots of guessing going on that's not worth taking any notice of. Few people today remember or have ever known what happened in the 1970s when we had a very successful cuts program.

I'm sure we we won't be having 3 hour cuts, that's too long and creates wastage as you've remarked.

The 1970s pattern was three 2 hour cuts in each 24 hours in a revolving program something like this:

Day one for a zone:

Cuts at midnight, 8am and 4pm.

Day 2:

Cuts at 2am, 10am, 6pm.

Day 3:

Cuts at 4am, 12noon, 8pm.

Then back to day one repeating, basically losing 2 hours of current every 8 hours. This gave everyone a fair share of the most inconvenient and most convenient cut times. And it did the trick, got us though the crisis.
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I do remember the 1970s cuts.

At school, we ran a very long extension cable from the headmaster's house, which was on the other side of a road, and in the next zone.

When a cut was scheduled, the entire school went to the main hall and we watched a film.

(It required a variable step-up transformer as the voltage drop was too great for the projector and speakers to run.)

I suspect that the biggest single saving was lighting. Good old tungsten filaments drew a lot of electricity. And they, at least, could genuinely save by being switched off.

When I was going round company offices, I was always amazed at the sheer number of people who had various heater (radiant, convection or fan) under their desks - who would leave them on all day, every day, except for a few summer months.

 

[oldgroaner]

Fascinating ..Larry the Cat has 10,000 more followers than Truss!
What a world we are living in!

We are indeed at peak laughing stock before the world when the house cat at 10 Downing Street is more popular than the PM

Might as well get them to swop jobs (Though I doubt Truss could catch a mouse!)

 

[oyster]

Fascinating ..Larry the Cat has 10,000 more followers than Truss!
What a world we are living in!

We are indeed at peak laughing stock before the world when the house cat at 10 Downing Street is more popular than the PM

Might as well get them to swop jobs (Though I doubt Truss could catch a mouse!)

Their reasons for following are likely also very different.

I suspect few follow Truss for any level of enjoyment, fun, relief, etc.

The big question is whether the majority of her followers are in any way supporters, or simply the rest of us in anticipation of a super gigantische Dosis von Schadenfreude.

 

[oyster]

Few trash tories as well as tories:

Ex-Tory Party chairman lambasts Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng over ‘unconservative’ Mini Budget

A former Tory Party chairman has said he is “extremely unimpressed” by Liz Truss’s start as Prime Minister as he accused her new Government of going against traditional Conservative values with its controversial ‘Mini’ Budget.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

(It is the thought that saying these things doesn't come naturally to them. That makes them all the more potent.)

 

[flecc]

I suspect that the biggest single saving was lighting. Good old tungsten filaments drew a lot of electricity. And they, at least, could genuinely save by being switched off.

TVs too, the 1960s and '70s cathode ray TVs were greedy beasts that helped heat rooms.

Fridges back then were greedy too, so saving through the 24 hours on those.

Lots of people didnt have timers on immersion heaters, just relying on the thermostat, so the cuts saved high current at all times there too.

And of course for all those with electric cookers like me, time shifting cooking a meal away from the peak consumption times made a big difference, even more so if like me they used a camping gas stove then instead.
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[oyster]

TVs too, the 1960s and '70s cathode ray TVs were greedy beasts that helped heat rooms.

Fridges back then were greedy too, so saving through the 24 hours on those.

Lots of people didnt have timers on immersion heaters, just relying on the thermostat, so the cuts saved high current at all times there too.

And of course for all those with electric cookers like me, time shifting cooking a meal away from the peak consumption times made a big difference, even more so if like me they used a camping gas stove then instead.
.

One of my friends got a colour TV in the very early days - when they didn't need a stand, they sat on the floor - and the cabinet was actually full, not just space. They needed a 13A fuse in their plugs.

Something like this (and it was a Baird from RR):



And almost nothing was broadcast in colour except some trade test transmissions. Some of which were really very watchable!

 

[oldgroaner]

Their reasons for following are likely also very different.

I suspect few follow Truss for any level of enjoyment, fun, relief, etc.

The big question is whether the majority of her followers are in any way supporters, or simply the rest of us in anticipation of a super gigantische Dosis von Schadenfreude.

Actually most follow Larry the Cat because his tweets usually make sense as well as being amusing

 

[oldgroaner]

One of my friends got a colour TV in the very early days - when they didn't need a stand, they sat on the floor - and the cabinet was actually full, not just space. They needed a 13A fuse in their plugs.

Something like this (and it was a Baird from RR):

View attachment 49081

And almost nothing was broadcast in colour except some trade test transmissions. Some of which were really very watchable!

My Aunt had a Projection Colour tv which had a nine inch cathode ray tube behind a something of the order of 17" magnifying frosted on the rear front section.
It was powerful enough to give a dull monochrome picture, but to watch colour you needed to close what were effectively blackout curtains and turn off the light.
I remember being thrilled to sit in the dark when invited there to watch it

 

[flecc]

One of my friends got a colour TV in the very early days - when they didn't need a stand, they sat on the floor - and the cabinet was actually full, not just space. They needed a 13A fuse in their plugs.

Something like this (and it was a Baird from RR):

View attachment 49081

And almost nothing was broadcast in colour except some trade test transmissions. Some of which were really very watchable!

Similar with me, I had a 19" GEC colour TV that could probably have fried an egg with the heat it gave off.

Incidentally the Baird name on that TV was a fake. Two of our TV makers, Baird and Murphy, were failing in the face of competition and Radio Rentals bought the two names to use on the sets they were having made for them by whoever. An early example of badge engineering.
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[Danidl]

Why in the early 21st century dont we have better smoothing out devices than capacitors?

Can I save money on electricity by unplugging appliances and using capacitors?

www.straightdope.com

I hope that was tongue in cheek... We do have for instance those hydro pumped storage generators which can supply 300MW for 6 hours and then be replenished off peak. Turn on time is a little over a minute. They just need favourable geographic locations. I had the pleasure of walking the mile tunnel in the Turlough Hill facility in the early 1970s during its commissioning phase. The rotational inertia of the larger turbines actually supply smoothing out capacity on a national grid for a minute or more...

 

[oyster]

Does anyone think that Truss is, or could ever be, the right PM in the context of a war continuing with nuclear threats (whether they are real or just bluster)?

I wonder if our government has even taken the first steps to distributing appropriate iodine-based tablets?

Whereas it appears Finland and Poland will talk about such things, the UK has always taken the (currently extremely ironic) nannying view of pretty much never saying anything.

 

[oyster]

I hope that was tongue in cheek... We do have for instance those hydro pumped storage generators which can supply 300MW for 6 hours and then be replenished off peak. Turn on time is a little over a minute. They just need favourable geographic locations. I had the pleasure of walking the mile tunnel in the Turlough Hill facility in the early 1970s during its commissioning phase. The rotational inertia of the larger turbines actually supply smoothing out capacity on a national grid for a minute or more...

Always remembering that switching off zones, then switching them back on three hours later, will pretty much always increase the unsmoothness!

After all, every single thermostatically controlled device, which might usually click in for only a few percent of the time, will most likely cut in simultaneously when power is restored. Things like refrigeration, heating, etc. Also things like EV charging!

Dinorwig will be very welcome to help smooth.

 

[flecc]

I wonder if our government has even taken the first steps to distributing appropriate iodine-based tablets?

We'll probably take the Covid approach again.

Wait until it really happens to see if there is a problem.

Then when we see there really is a problem, panic and run around like headless chickens implementing excessive measures.
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[flecc]

Always remembering that switching off zones, then switching them back on three hours later, will pretty much always increase the unsmoothness!

Which is why it won't happen, governments don't make these technical decisions. As I said above, I'm sure we'll do as we did last time with a continuous running cuts program, meaning a relatively stable demand pattern.
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[Danidl]

Similar with me, I had a 19" GEC colour TV that could probably have fried an egg with the heat it gave off.

Incidentally the Baird name on that TV was a fake. Two of our TV makers, Baird and Murphy, were failing in the face of competition and Radio Rentals bought the two names to use on the sets they were having made for them by whoever. An early example of badge engineering.
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Its going back a fair bit now, but if my memory serves, there there up to 38 valves in those early-ish COLOUR tVs, and when you remember how warm a desktop radio with only 4 or 5 got, it's no surprise. Even the mid 1960s sets had at best only a few transistors, because they were incapable of either the high frequency operations or the high power ,or both.

 

[flecc]

Its going back a fair bit now, but if my memory serves, there there up to 38 valves in those early-ish COLOUR tVs, and when you remember how warm a desktop radio with only 4 or 5 got, it's no surprise. Even the mid 1960s sets had at best only a few transistors, because they were incapable of either the high frequency operations or the high power ,or both.

Indeed. About that time I even bought a new portable radio that only had a pair of OC72 germanium transistors in the output stage. The RF side was handled by valves with an Everready 67.5 volt battery supplying the HT. Like a PP3 on steroids!

 

[esuark]

Senior Tory minister Conor Burns sacked after ‘serious misconduct’ claim

MP asked by Liz Truss to step down as trade minister and has party whip removed

www.theguardian.com

love it! a mate of johnson`s. figures.........

 

[oyster]

Senior Tory minister Conor Burns sacked after ‘serious misconduct’ claim

MP asked by Liz Truss to step down as trade minister and has party whip removed

www.theguardian.com

love it! a mate of johnson`s. figures.........

Just keeps flowing...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1578411437894299648

And while talking abour Chris Bryant's views:

Labour MP calls for Paul Dacre peerage to be delayed
Chris Bryant questions timing while Daily Mail publisher faces legal action over alleged privacy breaches

 

[oyster]

What next for Liz Truss? Three possible scenarios for her premiership
Aubrey Allegretti
PM has clung on after a tumultuous start in No 10. We assess her chances of leading the Tories into the next election

What next for Liz Truss? Three possible scenarios for her premiership

PM has clung on after a tumultuous start in No 10. We assess her chances of leading the Tories into the next election

www.theguardian.com