Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Is there anyone left in public life who has a scintilla of integrity and commands any admiration or respect? It seems like the entire country is rotten at the moment.
We are all human. That means we can't be trusted with too much privilege since it's in all of our natures to take advantage of tolerance, real or perceived.

All the criticism of the abuses is from those who haven't had the opportunities to behave the same way, so have not been tempted. Therefore to judge themselves good and the other person bad is not a fair comparison when we are all born equal in nature before being brainwashed or corrupted by individual circumstances.

We could all have been some degree of Boris Johnson or Prince Andrew if we had lived their lives of privilege.
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Zlatan

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Is there anyone left in public life who has a scintilla of integrity and commands any admiration or respect? It seems like the entire country is rotten at the moment.
Ofcourse there is. Boris... All he did was walk into his garden with a bottle of wine and some Camembert and there were all these Dickhead’s milling about drinking( their own) wine... He socially distanced from them all asking Carrie WTF this lot doing on my lawn.
"And Feck me 2 years later Starmer is calling me a liar over it."
Boris is utterly trust worthy.. He says so.
Actually, I agree with flecc...
End of day he sat in his own garden and drank some wine and ate some cheese with a set of folk rest of world wouldn't want to even speak to. I, m fairly sure if folk were a little more astute they could find far worse about him..

 
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Mrs Honeyman

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We are all human. That means we can't be trusted with too much privilege since it's in all of our natures to take advantage of tolerance, real or perceived.

All the criticism of the abuses is from those who haven't had the opportunities to behave the same way, so have not been tempted. Therefore to judge themselves good and the other person bad is not a fair comparison when we are all born equal in nature before being brainwashed or corrupted by individual circumstances.

We could all have been some degree of Boris Johnson or Prince Andrew if we had lived their lives of privilege.
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Maybe. I'd like to think that I wouldn't, but who knows until we are in that privileged situation.

It does seem to be the case that every person Boris Johnson touches is left diminished in some way, corrupted themselves even. Every project or institution he involves himself with turns to soil.

If handed privilege, I don't think I'd end up like Boris Johnson.
 
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Danidl

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"I regret..." Not half as much as the rest of us.
Just to put it into context. My sister had the funeral meal for her husband who died exactly a year ago yesterday. My brother and another Sister could attend last Tuesday. . Family wakes and a get-together are a very Irish way of celebrating the life of a dear relative. That option was not available to her last year and nobody of her generation , except a single brother of mine living in Ascot ,could attend the funeral service.. and he could not stop by , share a neal or anything and drove back to Ascot from Swansea . In fact my sister could not even get to see her husband in hospital for the week before his operation or after his death, until he arrived at the undertakers

If you replicate that by the tens of thousands of other bereaved in the UK, an apology doesn't quite cut it.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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If handed privilege, I don't think I'd end up like Boris Johnson.
Not exactly the same of course, there are genetic reasons why that is impossible. But where lies are concerned we could all be as bad.

When we first learn to speak it's the first skill we all foolishly assume we have. Such parental questions as "Did you eat those sweets? or "Did you break that?" are met with the same firm "No" from an angelic face.

Fortunately for us we were wisely not allowed to get away with the lies, but Johnson never had that advantage. He's been allowed to get away with it all his life, making him a victim of his own circumstances. Whether he at last pays a price for that is still to be seen.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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If you replicate that by the tens of thousands of other bereaved in the UK, an apology doesn't quite cut it.
True.

Snag is that the tens of thousands are matched by many hundreds of thousands who broke the rules thoughout all of 2020.

The crowds who overwhelmed Bournemouth Beach to such an extent that the coucil had to close all access. The hundreds who tried to drive to Wales for holidays when that was banned. The thousands who drove into the countryside to relax or exercise when that was banned. The countless numbers who gathered in each others homes and gardens to drink or party throughout the year.

I'm not at all confident there were many people in this country who were totally innocent where the Covid rules were concerned. Much of the compliance was because they had no other alternative but to comply.
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flecc

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End of day he sat in his own garden and drank some wine and ate some cheese with a set of folk rest of world wouldn't want to even speak to.
Trouble is with the one law for everyone is the can of worms it opens:

Boris Johnson is at the head so the buck stops with him so he must go.

But If Prince Andrew is found guilty inthe USA or if he pays off his accuser, thus effectively admitting guilt, the Queen will have to go by the same token. She is after all at the head of the institution where the buck stops, and not only that, as Andrew's mother she was responsible for his upbringing and in part for the person he has turned out to be.

So in her platinum jubilee year she would have to go in disgrace as well as Johnson, handing over to Charles for all to be equal before the law.
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Zlatan

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Trouble is with the one law for everyone is the can of worms it opens:

Boris Johnson is at the head so the buck stops with him so he must go.

But If Prince Andrew is found guilty inthe USA or if he pays off his accuser, thus effectively admitting guilt, the Queen will have to go by the same token. She is after all at the head of the institution where the buck stops, and not only that, as Andrew's mother she was responsible for his upbringing and in part for the person he has turned out to be.

So in her platinum jubilee year she would have to go in disgrace as well as Johnson, handing over to Charles for all to be equal before the law.
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I agree but beginning to think he might weather the storm. Been listening and reading comments and many more are more tolerant than I expected. I do think an awful lot think "oh, it's Boris, he had a drink in Garden, he, s still better choice than Gove/Sunak".. Agreed, an awful lot of folk with emotional ties to that time do have really strong sentiments and are vocal. Don't think it's a done deal just yet though.
Somebody on radio even today said"It a witch hunt, leave the bloke alone, he's doing his best"...???
If we were 3 months from a GE it would be different... But we aren't. Let's wait and see.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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I agree but beginning to think he might weather the storm. Been listening and reading comments and many more are more tolerant than I expected. I do think an awful lot think "oh, it's Boris, he had a drink in Garden, he, s still better choice than Gove/Sunak".. Agreed, an awful lot of folk with emotional ties to that time do have really strong sentiments and are vocal. Don't think it's a done deal just yet though.
Somebody on radio even today said"It a witch hunt, leave the bloke alone, he's doing his best"...???
If we were 3 months from a GE it would be different... But we aren't. Let's wait and see.
Not sure about that, just came back from work and caught youtube extract of starmer skewering boris like a rotten fish at pmqs. Thought it a rare case of legal experience, cross examination being genuinely useful
 
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flecc

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Somebody on radio even today said"It a witch hunt, leave the bloke alone, he's doing his best"...???
I've previously posted the same more than once, it is a witch hunt.

I'm going even further in saying he shouldn't resign and the complaints should stop.

He was selected to be lead by people who knew full well that he was a liar with a long history of incompetence. Then the whole country chose him to lead the next government with a huge majority, while also knowing his history of incompetence and lying.

So what has happened is only to be expected and the guilty are the electorate who put him where he is, not Johnson himself. Boris Johnson staying in office is precisely the punishment the electorate deserve for their own incompetence and stupidity.

That might teach them to choose more intelligently next time.
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Danidl

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True.

Snag is that the tens of thousands are matched by many hundreds of thousands who broke the rules thoughout all of 2020.

The crowds who overwhelmed Bournemouth Beach to such an extent that the coucil had to close all access. The hundreds who tried to drive to Wales for holidays when that was banned. The thousands who drove into the countryside to relax or exercise when that was banned. The countless numbers who gathered in each others homes and gardens to drink or party throughout the year.

I'm not at all confident there were many people in this country who were totally innocent where the Covid rules were concerned. Much of the compliance was because they had no other alternative but to comply.
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I don't want to labour this point ( unintended pun), but the hurt and anger expressed by my sister ,..and I expect by the others, doesn't get washed away by a person missing a day at the beach, or the the party. People like her will remember the hypocrisy. We had something similar in NI where the attendance of an excessive number of the notables from SF at a funeral , required a lot of humble pies being eaten by a party which NEVER says sorry..
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I don't want to labour this point ( unintended pun), but the hurt and anger expressed by my sister ,..and I expect by the others, doesn't get washed away by a person missing a day at the beach, or the the party. People like her will remember the hypocrisy. We had something similar in NI where the attendance of an excessive number of the notables from SF at a funeral , required a lot of humble pies being eaten by a party which NEVER says sorry..
I remember how universal the hypocrisy was. The all too often two faced complaining about a politician who should have been expected to behave the way he has just makes that worse.

What on earth did the electorate expect when they voted in Boris Johnson?

See this link
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Zlatan

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I don't want to labour this point ( unintended pun), but the hurt and anger expressed by my sister ,..and I expect by the others, doesn't get washed away by a person missing a day at the beach, or the the party. People like her will remember the hypocrisy. We had something similar in NI where the attendance of an excessive number of the notables from SF at a funeral , required a lot of humble pies being eaten by a party which NEVER says sorry..
I know this might sound callous Danidl but the vote counters will be saying the number of people with emotional feelings (ie lost a loved one etc etc) over those weeks will in reality be quite small. As flecc suggests the vast majority will be more likely to have descended on sea side towns or done other what they saw as minor infringements. Many will be quietly thinking "so what".
Those feeling strongly, either against BJ or because they had severe circumstances at time will tend to be the vocal ones.
We all know full well they should not have had drinks on lawn but there is a sense of us all losing perspective on this.
Boris was photographed, sat next to his wife in his Garden having a glass of wine, with one other person at his table.???
It might have been called a party but its sure not like parties I held in my youth. It was drinks on the lawn. Yes, wrong but come on Danidl.
And, to be fair, I could be saying "I wasn't seeing my grandkids at time and there Boris was on lawn having drinks". But reason I didn't see my grand kids wasn't because Boris told me not to but because I thought it sensible, both for their sakes and mine, not to do so. I wasn't following rules. I was taking precautions.

 
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Mrs Honeyman

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True.

Snag is that the tens of thousands are matched by many hundreds of thousands who broke the rules thoughout all of 2020.

The crowds who overwhelmed Bournemouth Beach to such an extent that the coucil had to close all access. The hundreds who tried to drive to Wales for holidays when that was banned. The thousands who drove into the countryside to relax or exercise when that was banned. The countless numbers who gathered in each others homes and gardens to drink or party throughout the year.

I'm not at all confident there were many people in this country who were totally innocent where the Covid rules were concerned. Much of the compliance was because they had no other alternative but to comply.
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Not all of us are the law makers or running the country. When responsible for those duties, you have to keep your personal desires under control in order to maintain credibility. If you can’t, you loose credibility and with it, the ability / right to lead.

No body cares about the guy pooing in a burger box on Brighton Beech whilst supposedly on furlough. He’s not making the rules or running the country.
 

Zlatan

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Perhaps Soundwave is way infront of everybody.
In case link isn't working, basically researchers are saying Cannabis can prevent covid infection.
 
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