Brexit, for once some facts.

soundwave

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guerney

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flecc

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The function of a vaccine is to generate antibodies in advance of a disease . The fundamental point is that the vaccine does not in itself treat .it . They prime the immune system ,which then does the business. It is great if they succeed in stopping the infection at the front door, but that is not a measure of their efficacy.
Wrong. The efficacy of a vaccine in preventing an infection is precisely the measure of a vaccine's worth. That is why it is expressed in percentage terms and those that fail to reach above 60% are regarded as failures.

The vaccines are definitely not antigens. What they do is instruct the cells to manufacture antigens.
This and the above are precisely what I posted on March 8th in opening this discussion.

In common with a number of others approving that post, you appended a "Like" to it.

That is a measure of how much you've allowed yourself to be influenced and your mind changed by the propaganda since.

I've termed your verbose responses since as ducking and diving, going to any lengths to try to convince the truth has changed.

It hasn't, and I hope members will not be fooled by all the blather and blarney.

OED definitions:

Vaccine:
A preparation injected or administered orally to give immunity against an infection.

Antigen: A substance that causes the body to produce antibodies.

The Covid vaccines fail to meet the first definition. They do precisely meet the second one. Therefore they are antigens.

QED.
.
 
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soundwave

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the sword will be for fort max when they bother to make it as got it on pre order ;)

44863
 
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oyster

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Omicron is the new official name for the "Botswana" variant.

Belgian officials have confirmed it has already been detected there. Should be with us by tomorrow afternoon's Eurostar.
.
It's here.

After overnight genome sequencing, the UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) has confirmed that two cases of Covid-19 with mutations consistent with B.1.1.529 have been identified in the UK.

The individuals that have tested positive, and all members of their households, are being retested and told to self-isolate while further testing and contact tracing is under way, officials said.

One case has been located in Chelmsford and the other in Nottingham. The two cases are linked, officials said, and there is a link to travel to southern Africa. The UKHSA is carrying out targeted testing at locations where the positive cases were likely to have been infectious.
 

GLJoe

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... The efficacy of a vaccine in preventing an infection is precisely the measure of a vaccine's worth. That is why it is expressed in percentage terms and those that fail to reach above 60% are regarded as failures...
I'm quoting flecc, but this goes out to any knowledgeable person here.

How exactly do they calculate the quoted efficacy/effectiveness percentage?
When they come out and say something like "the Moderna vaccine is 95% effective", what exactly does that mean ??
 

oyster

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Wrong. The efficacy of a vaccine in preventing an infection is precisely the measure of a vaccine's worth. That is why it is expressed in percentage terms and those that fail to reach above 60% are regarded as failures.



This and the above are precisely what I posted on March 8th in opening this discussion.

In common with a number of others approving that post, you appended a "Like" to it.

That is a measure of how much you've allowed yourself to be influenced and your mind changed by the propaganda since.

I've termed your verbose responses since as ducking and diving, going to any lengths to try to convince the truth has changed.

It hasn't, and I hope members will not be fooled by all the blather and blarney.

OED definitions:

Vaccine:
A preparation injected or administered orally to give immunity against an infection.

Antigen: A substance that causes the body to produce antibodies.

The Covid vaccines fail to meet the first definition. They do precisely meet the second one. Therefore they are antigens.

QED.
.
Many vaccines do not provide immunity, at least, not in all subjects. But many do impact on the severity should the subject catch that dose. For example:

"Some people who are vaccinated against chickenpox may still get the disease. However, it is usually milder with fewer blisters and little or no fever. Talk with your healthcare professional if you have questions about chickenpox vaccine."
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Many vaccines do not provide immunity, at least, not in all subjects.
Agreed, but they do primarily act as vaccines.

The Covid vaccines don't guarantee immunity in anyone. Furthermore, a vaccinated person who catches Covid is as effective in transmitting the disease as anyone unvaccinated.

Impacting on the severity is the primary benefit of the Covid vaccines, just read the posts of my opposers in here to see that.

As I have clearly shown, the Covid vaccines are antigens rather than vaccines.
.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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I'm quoting flecc, but this goes out to any knowledgeable person here.

How exactly do they calculate the quoted efficacy/effectiveness percentage?
When they come out and say something like "the Moderna vaccine is 95% effective", what exactly does that mean ??
95% effective means most of your body won't be affected by Covid but 5% will..so perhaps your feet will feel like they have flu or worse for a week or 2..
If vaccine is only 60% effective your legs might suffer too.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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I'm quoting flecc, but this goes out to any knowledgeable person here.

How exactly do they calculate the quoted efficacy/effectiveness percentage?
When they come out and say something like "the Moderna vaccine is 95% effective", what exactly does that mean ??
I have no idea of the new speak definition, but it appears to be the peak point of protection against acquiring the disease, certainly not a lasting one.

Prior to covid the definition was the lasting level of prevention from catching the disease, often whole life protection from one dose. Not the rapidly fading protection of the Covid vaccines requiring a booster every six months at least.
.
 

Danidl

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Wrong. The efficacy of a vaccine in preventing an infection is precisely the measure of a vaccine's worth. That is why it is expressed in percentage terms and those that fail to reach above 60% are regarded as failures.



This and the above are precisely what I posted on March 8th in opening this discussion.

In common with a number of others approving that post, you appended a "Like" to it.

That is a measure of how much you've allowed yourself to be influenced and your mind changed by the propaganda since.

I've termed your verbose responses since as ducking and diving, going to any lengths to try to convince the truth has changed.

It hasn't, and I hope members will not be fooled by all the blather and blarney.

OED definitions:

Vaccine:
A preparation injected or administered orally to give immunity against an infection.

Antigen: A substance that causes the body to produce antibodies.

The Covid vaccines fail to meet the first definition. They do precisely meet the second one. Therefore they are antigens.

QED.
.
"In immunology, an antigen is a molecule or molecular structure that can bind to a specific antibody or T-cell receptor. The presence of antigens in the body may trigger an immune response. The term antigen originally referred to a substance that is an antibody generator.".... Wikipedia
Note the inclusion of the word originally...
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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"In immunology, an antigen is a molecule or molecular structure that can bind to a specific antibody or T-cell receptor. The presence of antigens in the body may trigger an immune response. The term antigen originally referred to a substance that is an antibody generator.".... Wikipedia
Note the inclusion of the word originally...
Indeed originally, just before Covid and the vaccine new speak.

And as your quote admits, "may" trigger an immune response.

An acceptable vaccine does trigger an immune response.
.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Agreed, but they do primarily act as vaccines.

The Covid vaccines don't guarantee immunity in anyone. Furthermore, a vaccinated person who catches Covid is as effective in transmitting the disease as anyone unvaccinated.

Impacting on the severity is the primary benefit of the Covid vaccines, just read the posts of my opposers in here to see that.

As I have clearly shown, the Covid vaccines are antigens rather than vaccines.
.
But flecc, that is exactly the same with any of the other vaccines as well. No vaccine guarantees immunity, they all have limitations.
CDC website...

The MMR is 97% effective against contracting Rubella

MMR vaccine is very safe and effective. The mumps component of the MMR vaccine is about 88% (range: 32-95%) effective when a person gets two doses; one dose is about 78% (range: 49%−92%) effective.

Other review...
"Measles: one dose of vaccine was 95% effective in preventing measles. Based on the data analysed in the review, the number of cases would fall from 7% in unvaccinated children to under 0.5% in children who receive one dose of the vaccine. After two doses, effectiveness was similar at around 96%.
Mumps: one dose of vaccine was 72% effective in preventing mumps. This rose to 86% after two doses. From data analysed in the review. the number of cases would fall from 7.4% in unvaccinated children to 1% in children were vaccinated with two doses. "
 

AndyBike

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Nov 8, 2020
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Those tents are useless and do nothing to contain the smell, which you probably can't smell yourself anymore but are in fact so pungent it stinks to high heaven and is what alerts the cops to where its coming from.

I have seen grow containers, based on something akin to a fridge that seals up completely, vented through a huge carbon filter. It might save you in the future from getting your door panned in an a hefty fine.

I'm not anti weed, I used to polish off about 1 1/2oz a month till i realized how much that was costing financially and how much of a laziness impact it was making in my life. Now I don't mind the occasional gram at Xmas, which lasts well over a weekend, but smoking so much of it that you need to produce crops of the stuff is a bad position to be in.

No matter how you care to justify it ;)
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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But flecc, that is exactly the same with any of the other vaccines as well. No vaccine guarantees immunity, they all have limitations.
CDC website...

The MMR is 97% effective against contracting Rubella

MMR vaccine is very safe and effective. The mumps component of the MMR vaccine is about 88% (range: 32-95%) effective when a person gets two doses; one dose is about 78% (range: 49%−92%) effective.

Other review...
"Measles: one dose of vaccine was 95% effective in preventing measles. Based on the data analysed in the review, the number of cases would fall from 7% in unvaccinated children to under 0.5% in children who receive one dose of the vaccine. After two doses, effectiveness was similar at around 96%.
Mumps: one dose of vaccine was 72% effective in preventing mumps. This rose to 86% after two doses. From data analysed in the review. the number of cases would fall from 7.4% in unvaccinated children to 1% in children were vaccinated with two doses. "
Think my definition is easier to understand... And it's of similar value for arguing about Covid. We are all saying just have the vaccine/antigen. It might save your life, it might keep you out of hospital and it will reduce stress on NHS. That's justification.
 

AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
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PS, just so folk are aware im pro vaccine. I dont give a rats about pro or against arguments, I only know what I've witnessed over the last couple of years and how the vaccine has help to considerably cut the number of serious cases.
 

soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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Those tents are useless and do nothing to contain the smell, which you probably can't smell yourself anymore but are in fact so pungent it stinks to high heaven and is what alerts the cops to where its coming from.

I have seen grow containers, based on something akin to a fridge that seals up completely, vented through a huge carbon filter. It might save you in the future from getting your door panned in an a hefty fine.

I'm not anti weed, I used to polish off about 1 1/2oz a month till i realized how much that was costing financially and how much of a laziness impact it was making in my life. Now I don't mind the occasional gram at Xmas, which lasts well over a weekend, but smoking so much of it that you need to produce crops of the stuff is a bad position to be in.

No matter how you care to justify it ;)
i had a massive carbon filter in the loft with a giant in line fan the tent would suck in when it was zipped up lol you could not smell anything.

i got potm on thc talk with this one lol.

S1030690_01.JPG

:cool:
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Those tents are useless and do nothing to contain the smell, which you probably can't smell yourself anymore but are in fact so pungent it stinks to high heaven and is what alerts the cops to where its coming from.

I have seen grow containers, based on something akin to a fridge that seals up completely, vented through a huge carbon filter. It might save you in the future from getting your door panned in an a hefty fine.

I'm not anti weed, I used to polish off about 1 1/2oz a month till i realized how much that was costing financially and how much of a laziness impact it was making in my life. Now I don't mind the occasional gram at Xmas, which lasts well over a weekend, but smoking so much of it that you need to produce crops of the stuff is a bad position to be in.

No matter how you care to justify it ;)
During my work in education (I never claim to be a teacher, learning has to take place for that to be case, I was firefighting) we had to have close links with our local pschyciatric ward. (amongst many other institutions in our multi disciplinary approach). Always shocked me how many youths and kids were under their care because of cannabis. Anybody thinking cannabis is harmless really should take a trip to their local ward and ask what medical profession think about its unregulated use amongst kids/youths. Yep, it might not cause psychosis but it certainly brings it about if folk have tendencies that way.
Agreed,lots of folk use it with no apparent issues but for quite a few it's a nightmare. A waking one.
And I hardly think this is the place to be advertising its use.
 
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