Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Why was so much money spent on amateurs and their overpaid consultants and advisers ,when the NHS have done this sort of thing efficiently for years?

I'm not supporting the payment of consultants, but the NHS has never handled anything like as large as this, vaccinating almost the whole population. And they've made an awful mess of all attempts to run nationwide systems, wasting multiple millions in each process.

Broken down into individually managed health trusts as they are, they couldn't have handled it without outside direction and overall control.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Neither

Impossible.

 

[oyster]

I have a question
According to NHS figures the local Md's and Pharmacies injected the following patients with Flu vaccine

2,617,628​

Apart for the need for good PR, why wasn't the Covid vaccination handled in the same way by the NHS and Pharmacies ?
Why did it need a task force and a dodgy member of the Elite plus an army of consultants and hangers on paid megabucks to get a simple job done?
As to doing her job well, how does that work out when she needed so many ridiculously highly paid advisers.
Did she actually have anything left to do herself?
Why was so much money spent on amateurs and their overpaid consultants and advisers ,when the NHS have done this sort of thing efficiently for years?

Many vaccinations in Wales have been done by GP surgeries and pharmacies. Sorry - I don't have figures to hand. My vaccination was done by our GP surgery but at the local rugby club...

 

[oldgroaner]

More possibly good news
COVID-19: Nasal spray could prevent coronavirus invading human cells A British biotech company is moving towards Phase II clinical trials of a range of treatments to tackle coronavirus infections.

 

[oyster]

More possibly good news
COVID-19: Nasal spray could prevent coronavirus invading human cells A British biotech company is moving towards Phase II clinical trials of a range of treatments to tackle coronavirus infections.

If you are being positive, how about this:

Asthma drug helps older people cope with Covid at home – study
Inhaling budesonide found to shorten recovery for over-65s, and over-50s with underlying conditions
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/12/asthma-drug-budesonide-helps-older-people-cope-with-covid-at-home-study

Some more information about the medicine itself - including that you can (in limited circumstances) get it without prescription in the UK. Assuming they haven't sold out...
https://bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/budesonide.html

 

[oyster]

More possibly good news
COVID-19: Nasal spray could prevent coronavirus invading human cells A British biotech company is moving towards Phase II clinical trials of a range of treatments to tackle coronavirus infections.

Not clear why not just go out and buy some linoleic acid?

Remdesivir as well might be even better - but linoleic is pretty cheap and available.

 

[Nev]

I've just been listening to an interview on the Today programme with Anthony Fauci, he said the US may not need any of the AZ vaccine (I think they have 10s of millions of doses in storage) because it looks like the vaccines being provided by other manufactures will be sufficient for their entire population.

I think it would be a good idea if our government was to immediately get into contact with the US government and offer to buy some of their AZ supply as it looks quite likely the USA is never going to use it (it still hasn't got approval for use over there).

The EU and several other countries around the world don't seem too keen on the AZ vaccine but lots of people over here would rather have it than have to wait months for an alternative.

 

[Danidl]

I'm not supporting the payment of consultants, but the NHS has never handled anything like as large as this, vaccinating almost the whole population. And they've made an awful mess of all attempts to run nationwide systems, wasting multiple millions in each process.

Broken down into individually managed health trusts as they are, they couldn't have handled it without outside direction and overall control.
.

Flecc.. I cannot see that as valid. The local authorities manage to get 30 million people processed in a single 16 hour shift. And they do this routinely every 4 years. That involves checking their names, printing ..or stamping a document and letting them dodder over to a polling booth. They then the next day are able to count all those documents and tally them up over another 12 hrs. Now in Ireland is a different job, but it can involve tallying up these documents or ballots up to 20 times

 

[flecc]

Flecc.. I cannot see that as valid. The local authorities manage to get 30 million people processed in a single 16 hour shift. And they do this routinely every 4 years. That involves checking their names, printing ..or stamping a document and letting them dodder over to a polling booth. They then the next day are able to count all those documents and tally them up over another 12 hrs. Now in Ireland is a different job, but it can involve tallying up these documents or ballots up to 20 times

Exactly, a well known paper routine every 4 years for lifetimes, it's called practice makes perfect.

Covid vaccination is an entirely different thing involving a national distribution of vaccines, supplied for phased age bands, combined with the provision of special ultra low temperature refrigeration all done by a mix of different people who've never done anything like it on this scale before.

There is no comparison.
.

 

[Danidl]

Exactly, a well known paper routine every 4 years for lifetimes, it's called practice makes perfect.

Covid vaccination is an entirely different thing involving a national distribution of vaccines, supplied for phased age bands, combined with the provision of special ultra low temperature refrigeration all done by a mix of different people who've never done anything like it on this scale before.

There is no comparison.
.

There is every comparison. .. Or rather the product in one case has to be protected after processing the other before processing. In my opinion, the local primary school is the ideal distribution centre. The blood transfusion service has been doing this type of thing for yonks. The chemical can even be self administered, with just a nurse or doctor on standby. But we will agree to differ.

 

[Nev]

I copied this from another forum. Someone was sent it in an email, I can just imagine Sir Humphrey saying all this to Jim Hacker.


The following is taken from an email I recently received from The Tea House Theatre in Vauxhall, London which I found amusing:

"Tea House Theatre Food and Drink Laws
From 12th April 2021
• If you are inside the outside covered area, you are not officially inside you are outside.
• You can go inside the Tea House to get outside, then sit inside a covered area as long as it is outside.
• You can go inside the Tea House to the lavatory, but you can't go to the lavatory outside.
• You can go inside the inside area to pay, but you must stay inside the outside covered area to drink.
• If it rains, you can sit inside the covered area, but only if it is outside the inside area.
• If you decide to go home, you can go inside the Tea House to get outside to walk home to be inside again.
• You can walk past the bar to go to the lavatory inside, but you must not carry your Pimms back outside. This is only safe if done by the waiters from inside.
• Only our waiters can take a drink outside to you, while you are inside the outside, covered area.
• Outside the inside area, inside the outside covered area you may not stand and drink.
• If you move from inside the covered area outside, inside the inside area inside, you may not sit and drink.
I hope this is clear.
All these rules will change on 17th May."

 

[oldgroaner]

Looking at the news it looks like any hope of a phased easing of lockdown sank with all hands last night.
Lockdown is now a case of "Wish me luck as you wave me goodbye!"

 

[flecc]

There is every comparison. .. Or rather the product in one case has to be protected after processing the other before processing. In my opinion, the local primary school is the ideal distribution centre. The blood transfusion service has been doing this type of thing for yonks. The chemical can even be self administered, with just a nurse or doctor on standby. But we will agree to differ.

The primary schools were not ideal, since as as I've replied before, they were still operational as schools for key workers children and others for various reasons, so they couldn't be and weren't used. The bulk of our vaccination program has been completed in large centres, either existing health centres or specially set up centres, making for better centralised administration.

You've ignored the question of the purchasing from overseas and supply and installation of the refrigeration for the Pfizer. Who will do this in an NHS which is fragmented into numerous self managing area health trusts in four different countries? It had to be done internationally/nationally just like the vaccine distribution, by a newly set up national body for that purpose.

And self administration is an impractical red herring, nothing to do with the organisation of the vaccine program.
.

 

[oyster]

an NHS

Four NHS organisations. GIG ≠ NHS England, etc.

 

[flecc]

Four NHS organisations. GIG ≠ NHS England, etc.

As I hinted at with my mention of the four nations NHS.
.

 

[oyster]

And self administration is an impractical red herring, nothing to do with the organisation of the vaccine program.

The have been suggestions of a micro-needle array being a potential route of administration. Just slap it on your skin and it's done.

 

[oyster]

The have been suggestions of a micro-needle array being a potential route of administration. Just slap it on your skin and it's done.

Don't get confused between your velcro and the patches...

Novel microneedle array developed to deliver COVID-19 vaccine to mice
Researchers have created a microneedle array that successfully delivered a COVID-19 vaccine to mice, allowing them to produce antibodies against the virus.
https://www.europeanpharmaceuticalreview.com/news/116290/novel-microneedle-array-developed-to-deliver-covid-19-vaccine-to-mice/

 

[flecc]

The have been suggestions of a micro-needle array being a potential route of administration. Just slap it on your skin and it's done.

I've watched so many of the A & E etc programs on TV that I know how nervous and even hysterical so many get about having a jab, even to the point of refusal. The notion of any skin piercing is enough to trigger those responses. The idea that many would self administer is a non starter, and pointless anyway if a nurse of doctor has to be standing by to watch they do it properly as Danidl suggests.
.

 

[flecc]

Don't get confused between your velcro and the patches...

Novel microneedle array developed to deliver COVID-19 vaccine to mice
Researchers have created a microneedle array that successfully delivered a COVID-19 vaccine to mice, allowing them to produce antibodies against the virus.
https://www.europeanpharmaceuticalreview.com/news/116290/novel-microneedle-array-developed-to-deliver-covid-19-vaccine-to-mice/

Sounds expensive to produce, the minute amount in one dose distributed into miniscule drops to many injectors.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Sounds expensive to produce, the minute amount in one dose distributed into miniscule drops to many injectors.
.

If it ain't bust don't try and mend it... System we have is doing OK??