Brexit, for once some facts.

[sjpt]

Tell it to the Judge
Dodgy Dave!

There was probably nothing illegal (I'm very happy to be shown wrong).

May aspects of British life assume reasonable moral behaviour (especially from people in authority), and it hasn't been found necessary to draft laws to make many specific immoral behaviours illegal. It isn't practicable to predict all potential immoral behaviours and legislate against them, and any attempt to make a 'generic' law would be so open to interpretation as to be useless.

The best that can be done is to draft relevant specific laws as it becomes clear they are needed; as has been suggested it this case by several politicians.

 

[flecc]

Not sure Flecc, my wife has it all planned out. Market, town, Meadow Hall, the lot.. I, ll be in garage and emptying car on her return of all the essential junk destined for car boot in a couple of weeks time. I don't get it. I go shopping to get stuff I want. Wife goes shopping as entertainment.
We used to have a dog that ate like wife shops. He, d eat everything and anything then throw up what he didn't want.

There were 200 people queuing outside Primark at 7am this morning.. that's 400 legs and 800 teeth.

If there is an upsurge in infections from now on, it would be interesting to know the gender mix for a change to show who is to blame. I can already guess the answer.
.

 

[oyster]

There was probably nothing illegal (I'm very happy to be shown wrong).

May aspects of British life assume reasonable moral behaviour (especially from people in authority), and it hasn't been found necessary to draft laws to make many specific immoral behaviours illegal. It isn't practicable to predict all potential immoral behaviours and legislate against them, and any attempt to make a 'generic' law would be so open to interpretation as to be useless.

The best that can be done is to draft relevant specific laws as it becomes clear they are needed; as has been suggested it this case by several politicians.

In my post I wasn't arguing for a specific law. Just that it shouldn't have taken Cameron any time at all to realise that his behaviour and actions were in appropriate, even if not illegal.

I remember when the Health and Safety at Work Act came about. One of the first pieces of legislation that said nothing about the specifics but broadly said that unsafe things were not allowed. Many companies put effort into achieving safety and document the process. Sometimes that is even public.

Some further steps would open up visibility still further. And, as Grenfell is showing, there is a clear need to impose things like an absolute requirement for people involved to appear in court, if demanded. If necessary, every French company (for it appears to be some employees of a company there who are attempting to shelter behind some bizarre French legal provision) to relinquish protection from French law before they are allowed to trade here.

 

[oldgroaner]

4 teeth each. Don’t you know anything?

Apparently not!

 

[oldgroaner]

MABs (monoclonal antibodies) - some have been approved.

I'll nip down to Tesco for a packet

 

[oldgroaner]

What we need right now in Parliament is someone noted for diplomacy and tact
Unfortunately for some reason it didn't work out so well last time
But at least we got a great laugh

 

[Zlatan]

Over last couple of weeks I seem to have been central to a mini outbreak. I know of 6 people (no contact with them) who have had positive tests. (3 family, 3 friends). All coping well with relatively mild symptoms but worrying aspect is not a single one of them had been contacted by T & T prior to symptoms???

 

[Danidl]

In my post I wasn't arguing for a specific law. Just that it shouldn't have taken Cameron any time at all to realise that his behaviour and actions were in appropriate, even if not illegal.

I remember when the Health and Safety at Work Act came about. One of the first pieces of legislation that said nothing about the specifics but broadly said that unsafe things were not allowed. Many companies put effort into achieving safety and document the process. Sometimes that is even public.

Some further steps would open up visibility still further. And, as Grenfell is showing, there is a clear need to impose things like an absolute requirement for people involved to appear in court, if demanded. If necessary, every French company (for it appears to be some employees of a company there who are attempting to shelter behind some bizarre French legal provision) to relinquish protection from French law before they are allowed to trade here.

From what I understand, .. and this requires interpretation. British Common Law,.. which is the basis of what both you ,us and the USA use is everything is allowed unless explicitly forbidden. Both we and the USA have slightly modified this by also having Statue or enacted laws which are based on Constitutions. The European or Neapolitan version is that everything is permitted except where permitted by law.
It is best illustrated by a statement in say Germany.. you may walk on the footpath, ( thus by implication the grass is out of bounds) whereas in the UK you may not walk on the grass. ( Which then has not forbidden running, dancing, skipping , riding bikes on the grass ).
It makes writing laws in Europe much easier, and gives less work to lawyers

 

[flecc]

It is best illustrated by a statement in say Germany.. you may walk on the footpath, ( thus by implication the grass is out of bounds) whereas in the UK you may not walk on the grass. ( Which then has not forbidden running, dancing, skipping , riding bikes on the grass ).
It makes writing laws in Europe much easier, and gives less work to lawyers

Ah but we also have local authority byelaws which can and do encompass all manner of vagaries and occasionally have some quite harsh fines.

And the church in our two countries has routinely ignored common law, preferring something akin to "Whatever it is, you mustn't do it".
.

 

[wheeler]

From what I understand, .. and this requires interpretation. British Common Law,.. which is the basis of what both you ,us and the USA use is everything is allowed unless explicitly forbidden. Both we and the USA have slightly modified this by also having Statue or enacted laws which are based on Constitutions. The European or Neapolitan version is that everything is permitted except where permitted by law.
It is best illustrated by a statement in say Germany.. you may walk on the footpath, ( thus by implication the grass is out of bounds) whereas in the UK you may not walk on the grass. ( Which then has not forbidden running, dancing, skipping , riding bikes on the grass ).
It makes writing laws in Europe much easier, and gives less work to lawyers

After what happened in Bristol I think the Tories are trying to bring Statue law into the UK.

 

[flecc]

After what happened in Bristol I think the Tories are trying to bring Statue law into the UK.

No more statues with Bristols?
.

 

[oyster]

So now an investigation into Cameron's lobbying.

I guess Johnson thinks any blame will accrue to Cameron and others - not so much to his mob.

 

[oyster]

NHS Covid app in England and Wales cannot be updated!

Test and Trace (who? they?) have managed to break one of the fundamental rules Apple and Google required all developers to agree. As the new version breaks that, neither Apple nor Google will permit the update.

These apps are not allowed to upload location information and certainly not check-in data.

Scotland worked that out...

 

[oldgroaner]

After what happened in Bristol I think the Tories are trying to bring Statue law into the UK.

The ought to being in a law against sodomy of Union Jacks!

 

[oyster]

Ah but we also have local authority byelaws which can and do encompass all manner of vagaries and occasionally have some quite harsh fines.

And the church in our two countries has routinely ignored common law, preferring something akin to "Whatever it is, you mustn't do it".
.

Even worse, much of the time it is difficult to find out what those byelaws are.

And not just local authorities but national parks, military establishments, railways, airports, ports, forestry, water parks and goodness knows what else.

Much of the time virtually none of us would even think that there might be byelaws let alone actually look them up - or make sense of them.

 

[oyster]

The ought to being in a law against sodomy of Union Jacks!

I noticed that in the background of a news report re HRH from Cardiff, a building which I think is part of Cardiff Castle had one flagpole. Upon which one flag was at half-mast. Despite Johnson's requirement that all government buildings fly the union flag, with the union flag taking precedence if there is a single flag pole, they were flying the flag of Wales.

(Maybe not being national government, the city of Cardiff is not covered.)

 

[flecc]

Even worse, much of the time it is difficult to find out what those byelaws are.

And not just local authorities but national parks, military establishments, railways, airports, ports, forestry, water parks and goodness knows what else.

Much of the time virtually none of us would even think that there might be byelaws let alone actually look them up - or make sense of them.

Very true, but I only mentioned local authority byelaws since they are mainly the bodies actually enforcing them. Most of the others just pay lip service to enforcement.
.

 

[sjpt]

In my post I wasn't arguing for a specific law. Just that it shouldn't have taken Cameron any time at all to realise that his behaviour and actions were in appropriate, even if not illegal.

I remember when the Health and Safety at Work Act came about. One of the first pieces of legislation that said nothing about the specifics but broadly said that unsafe things were not allowed. Many companies put effort into achieving safety and document the process. Sometimes that is even public.

Some further steps would open up visibility still further. And, as Grenfell is showing, there is a clear need to impose things like an absolute requirement for people involved to appear in court, if demanded. If necessary, every French company (for it appears to be some employees of a company there who are attempting to shelter behind some bizarre French legal provision) to relinquish protection from French law before they are allowed to trade here.

Absolutely. My response was not to your original post, but to the response 'Tell it to the Judge'. All a judge could say was 'Maybe the behaviour was inappropriate, but it was not illegal.' All that can be done legally is to learn by experience and pass a new law make it illegal in future (your some further steps)

 

[sjpt]

Despite Johnson's requirement that all government buildings fly the union flag ...

I remember that he said that he would like that to happen. As far as I remember no law was passed, so it is not a requirement.

 

[Danidl]

The ought to being in a law against sodomy of Union Jacks!

Should that " of" not be "in ".?.. Just asking for a shop stewart.