Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

This is the chart used by our government.
I wonder how the potential benefit and harm is calculated.
Any idea?

The benefits calculation becomes ever more speculative as time goes on. Whereas the serious harms should be a one-off. Or at least, that would be the obvious and simple guess.

It would be very hard to speak to the family of anyone who has died from the AZ vaccine and attempt to justify their receiving it. Just as it would be difficult to justify people refusing it to the families of those who die from Covid-19 which (probably) could be been avoided by vaccination.

The variation in post-vaccination experiences is huge. I wonder whether the deaths are, to put it crudely, occur when the side effects are most severe - and that there is something in common across those who feel pretty ill and the few who die?

 

[oldgroaner]

Explain it to him in toilet economics.

If Twyfords Toilets call Ideal Toilet’s customers stupid idiots for buying Ideal’s products, they aren’t going to sell many toilets. It would be much better if Twyfords produced a superior, attractively priced toilet to lure Ideal’s customers away. Substitute Labour and Conservative into the above and you have the current political situation.

In reality one group was so dim it voted to ruin not only it's own future, but that of it's children as well, because it was motivated by jealousy and greed, and they were given such wonderful promises.
Frankly they were stupid enough not merely to fall for that once, but repeatedly, and once an idea enters the heads of these people, it can't be shifted, as they are unable to admit to themselves they have been made fools of.
Corbyn offered them a better future, even though outside the EU no one can.
Now there is no one to represent those of us who regard Brexit as rubbish.

Your childish homily is like you, too simplistic, after all the leave campaign assured the Brexit fans that they were being called stupid to recruit them, even though at that time before the referendum it was simply a lie aimed at the slow thinkers.
It worked because they are, and nothing has changed.

Look at the anti EU propaganda we are getting even from you

 

[oldgroaner]

This is the chart used by our government.
I wonder how the potential benefit and harm is calculated.
Any idea?

And so now a different vaccine will be offered to under 30's when the time comes.
At last someone is seeing sense (despite the idiocy from our government fans on here)

This tweet sums it up rather well
H 3.5%@HintheUK
Replying to
@PaulBrandITV
and
@mikegalsworthy
The real scandal is, the UK gov dragged the whole issue of potentially deadly side effects of a vaccine into the gutter of political point scoring against the EU. It needed scientific review and that's what we finally get. Shame on all who facilitated UK political propaganda."

But then you know my opinion of people who support this government that should be replaced before it does more harm

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Why?

We don't need to work anything like as much as we do, something pointed out by Harold Wilson very long ago and the others side's Harold, Macmiillan, was in agreement. That is even more true today.

Mechanisation, robotics and computerisation can do most of what people are doing or pretending to do at work. This forum alone shows how fake so many jobs are, loads of posts during working hours Monday to Friday but often dead in the evenings and weekends.

The only reason we are still nose to the grindstone eight hours a day, five days a week or more until we are almost 70 is that politicians are terrified by the prospect of a populace having little to do so able to make trouble for them as a hobby.

The way we all live needs a radical rethink into a totally different structure that sees us all working for only a fraction of our lives and getting used to much more liberty and how to gainfully use it from an early age. The only thing that needs to be worked out is how that portion of work is incorporated into life. Such as a batch of working years at a certain age band, akin to national service. Or a small portion of work each week or month thoughout life. Or some other formula.

Add all this to a lifelong living salary for everyone and life could be universally much better.
.

It's difficult, and this is idiosyncratic: but I usually think about uni. I went because I had to have a professional qualification to make money. But as it turns out it was also quite meaningful. And while there I worked in bars and restaurants to make money. And ended up with a surprising amount of life, socially and otherwise, for quite an introvert. If I had a rich father who left me a gazillion pounds, or won the lottery, I wouldn't have put myself through all of that (it was also an enormous stressful pain in the arse). And I'm quite lazy by nature. But then I'd have missed out on much that made life meaningful. So in principal I agree, but in practice I'm not so sure.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

In reality one group was so dim it voted to ruin not only it's own future, but that of it's children as well, because it was motivated by jealousy and greed, and they were given such wonderful promises.
Frankly they were stupid enough not merely to fall for that once, but repeatedly, and once an idea enters the heads of these people, it can't be shifted, as they are unable to admit to themselves they have been made fools of.
Corbyn offered them a better future, even though outside the EU no one can.
Now there is no one to represent those of us who regard Brexit as rubbish.

Your childish homily is like you, too simplistic, after all the leave campaign assured the Brexit fans that they were being called stupid to recruit them, even though at that time before the referendum it was simply a lie aimed at the slow thinkers.
It worked because they are, and nothing has changed.

Look at the anti EU propaganda we are getting even from you

That’s it, carry on and cement Boris Johnson’s term in office for a second time.

 

[oldgroaner]

Media for a long while has been pro labour. Watch BBC, read Guardian. Usual culprits promote Tories but only you read Daily Mail to quote on here.. You advertise Tories more than anyone else.. And push people to them with your offensive attitude

The usual BS from you.
And remember it's no good complaining that Labour aren't clever enough to take power and rescue you from your mad decision to vote for Brexit.
This situation is yours, what are you going to do about it?

 

[oldgroaner]

That’s it, carry on and cement Boris Johnson’s term in office for a second time.

Why should it bother you? you have put him there more than once, now you want someone to bail you out, and Labour aren't up to the job

Simple answer, learn from your mistake, don't vote for him again!

By the way Boris is saying the same things as I am about being cautious of the AZ vaccine, does that mean you would have him shot too for undermining enthusiasm for vaccination?

 

[oyster]

This is the chart used by our government.
I wonder how the potential benefit and harm is calculated.
Any idea?

Of course, we need to keep our eyes open...

1h ago 17:33


A British medical expert has said there is not enough evidence to rule out that blood clotting side effects seen with the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine could not also be seen with other types of vaccines.

Professor Anthony Harnden, deputy chairman of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) said a similar vaccine type to the AstraZeneca jab is the Janssen vaccine, which the UK has placed orders for.

Speaking at a briefing hosted by the Science Media Centre (SMC) on Wednesday, Harnden said reports of blood clots could be “AstraZeneca-related”, adding:

It could be related to the specific vaccine but could be related to the vaccine platform.

And if it is, then the same safety signals will arise with the Janssen vaccine, and we know that there’s been one case within the clinical trial of the Janssen vaccine.

But we’re not seeing this with the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines, that’s the Pfizer or Moderna at the moment.

 

[Zlatan]

The usual BS from you.
And remember it's no good complaining that Labour aren't clever enough to take power and rescue you from your mad decision to vote for Brexit.
This situation is yours, what are you going to do about it?

Nothing, and I never said anything about labour and clever or intelligence. They simply need to change and represent more people, sort out their internal wranglings and not try and bribe society next time
You take shot gun approach to everything you don't agree with,and all you ever do is attempt to justify your stance by throwing yet more insults at everybody. You are labour's worst enemy. The more you insult, call voters stupid or are talking BS the more entrenched everyone becomes.
When will you learn. You don't change anyone's mind by saying they are stupid, need educating, are talking BS. Honestly OG you have almost converted me to an out and out Tory. (this was first election I, d voted Conservative)
Your attitude simply makes such as me think I, d did right. And, I, ll do same again next time, as will millions of others whilst such as you tell us we are thick, brexidiots, talking BS or are stupid.
Would me calling you stupid make you think "I know I, ll vote Tory now". Of course not. And it's exactly what the remain side did in ref and Labour did in election.
Folk just think "OK, you Marxist fool, I, m stupid, talk BS, need educating and I, m misinformed, so feck you I, ll vote Boris".
That's how people behave OG. They do it not because of you but in spite of such as you and your attitude.
I suspect its why Labour lost all its previously strong areas. I never ever thought I, d see day where pit villages voted Conservative. That is thanks to such as you. Really. And the more you kick off about it, the bigger the effect. So please keep going. I now want Tories in power indefinitely?? Well, I do whilst Labour are in this mess.
Keep up the good work. You are best advert possible for Conservative party.

 

[Zlatan]

And so now a different vaccine will be offered to under 30's when the time comes.
At last someone is seeing sense (despite the idiocy from our government fans on here)

This tweet sums it up rather well
H 3.5%@HintheUK
Replying to
@PaulBrandITV
and
@mikegalsworthy
The real scandal is, the UK gov dragged the whole issue of potentially deadly side effects of a vaccine into the gutter of political point scoring against the EU. It needed scientific review and that's what we finally get. Shame on all who facilitated UK political propaganda."

But then you know my opinion of people who support this government that should be replaced before it does more harm

Replaced? What with? Who you going to call? Ghost Busters.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Why should it bother you? you have put him there more than once, now you want someone to bail you out, and Labour aren't up to the job

Simple answer, learn from your mistake, don't vote for him again!

By the way Boris is saying the same things as I am about being cautious of the AZ vaccine, does that mean you would have him shot too for undermining enthusiasm for vaccination?

It doesn’t bother me if Johno, gets a second, third or fourth term, I’m pretty much insulated from the consequences. I would like to see a viable alternative though.

 

[Zlatan]

It doesn’t bother me if Johno, gets a second, third or fourth term, I’m pretty much insulted from the consequences. I would like to see a viable alternative though.

I assume you mean "insulated"... Could be apt??? Surprised OG hasn't pounced...

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I assume you mean "insulated"... Could be apt??? Surprised OG hasn't pounced...

Yes I did Pesky president text

 

[flecc]

It's difficult, and this is idiosyncratic: but I usually think about uni. I went because I had to have a professional qualification to make money. But as it turns out it was also quite meaningful. And while there I worked in bars and restaurants to make money. And ended up with a surprising amount of life, socially and otherwise, for quite an introvert. If I had a rich father who left me a gazillion pounds, or won the lottery, I wouldn't have put myself through all of that (it was also an enormous stressful pain in the arse). And I'm quite lazy by nature. But then I'd have missed out on much that made life meaningful. So in principal I agree, but in practice I'm not so sure.

Swings and roundabouts. All the opportunities would still be there and there would be other reasons to do what you did. Boredom for example can impel effort, and I'm sure this was an element in all the advances made by the idle wealthy who have been responsible for so much of our past discoveries.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

When will you learn. You don't change anyone's mind by saying they are stupid, need educating, are talking BS. Honestly OG you have almost converted me to an out and out Tory. (this was first election I, d voted Conservative)

What a joke you are
I didn't need to convert you did I?
Even after voting for Brexit, you then went on to vote for this travesty of a government?

You're hopeless! Sorry but I'm laughing at the absurdity

I simply tell the truth as I see it, how can you explain away what you have done?
Basically voting for the Conservatives has made you an accomplice, not a victim, but you fell for the lies about Corbyn, and you are now asking for the Labour party to come to your rescue?

Tell me, what sort of intelligence is that?
I call it what it is, and you don't like that.
tough!

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes I did Pesky president text

I assume you mean "insulated"... Could be apt??? Surprised OG hasn't pounced...

Still laughing..
President text?
Do you pay extra for that too?
Is it superior to predictive text?

 

[oldgroaner]

It doesn’t bother me if Johno, gets a second, third or fourth term, I’m pretty much insulated from the consequences. I would like to see a viable alternative though.

You ducked the question didn't you?
You're not the messiah,
You're a very naughty boy!

 

[oldgroaner]

Replaced? What with? Who you going to call? Ghost Busters.

Raid the nearest pub and press gang the drunks
Oh hang on, not near the HOC you'd get the same people
That being the case draw lots among all the MP's to form an all party Government

 

[oldgroaner]

Another Brexit own goal

Vaccitech, the Oxford-based firm that owns some of the key biotechnology behind the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine, is off to New York for a public listing. One can almost hear the groans from the Treasury. For a chancellor trying to encourage “even more high growth, dynamic businesses to list in the UK”, Vaccitech is a high-profile one to let slip.

Brexit disaster of the day
Seriously if anyone cares about making Brexit work, they surely went the wrong way about it electing this government!
They couldn't run a Whelk stall at the seaside.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

It doesn’t bother me if Johno, gets a second, third or fourth term, I’m pretty much insulated from the consequences. I would like to see a viable alternative though.

At some point you'll have the pleasure of picking up bojos 400 billion tab. In a hostile world where china is the new raison d'etre and the donald and all those other right wing wet dreams are a dim memory