Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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On average there are roughly 130 road deaths each and every month, I wonder how many of those had been vaccinated. A lot I would imagine by now.
And those vaccinateed if killed on the roads within 28 days of the jab are by law on the death certificate as Covid-19 cause of death. That's how daft the numbers often are.

An interesting defence for the driver who kills, "I didn't kill them, it was Covid-19!".
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Danidl

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This is a presentation from well known American genetics expert. He only led the Human Genome Project , ..... The tuppence I would add is that it was the UKs Herd Immunity Strategy which led to the conditions helping itsmergence
"the genome sequence of SARS-CoV-2, the virus responsible for COVID-19, was first reported in January 2020, thousands of variants have been reported. In the vast majority of cases, these variants, which arise from random genomic changes as SARS-CoV-2 makes copies of itself in an infected person, haven’t raised any alarm among public health officials. But that’s now changed with the emergence of at least three variants carrying mutations that potentially make them even more dangerous.

At the top of this short list is a variant known as B.1.1.7, first detected in the United Kingdom in September 2020. This variant is considerably more contagious than the original virus. It has spread rapidly around the globe and likely accounts already for at least one-third of all cases in the United States [1]. Now comes more troubling news: emerging evidence indicates that infection with this B.1.1.7 variant also comes with an increased risk of severe illness and death [2].

The findings, reported in Nature, come from Nicholas Davies, Karla Diaz-Ordaz, and Ruth Keogh, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. The London team earlier showed that this new variant is 43 to 90 percent more transmissible than pre-existing variants that had been circulating in England [3]. But in the latest paper, the researchers followed up on conflicting reports about the virulence of B.1.1.7.

They did so with a large British dataset linking more than 2.2 million positive SARS-CoV-2 tests to 17,452 COVID-19 deaths from September 1, 2020, to February 14, 2021. In about half of the cases (accounting for nearly 5,000 deaths), it was possible to discern whether or not the infection had been caused by the B.1.1.7 variant.

Based on this evidence, the researchers calculated the risk of death associated with B.1.1.7 infection. Their estimates suggest that B.1.1.7 infection was associated with 55 percent greater mortality compared to other SARS-CoV-2 variants over this time period.

For a 55- to 69-year-old male, this translates to a 0.9-percent absolute, or personal, risk of death, up from 0.6 percent for the older variants. That means nine in every 1,000 people in this age group who test positive with the B.1.1.7 variant would be expected to die from COVID-19 a month later. For those infected with the original virus, that number would be six.

The U.S. percentage of B.1.1.7 started near zero on January 2, 2021 but by March 13 was over 20%.
Adapted from Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
These findings are in keeping with those of another recent study reported in the British Medical Journal [4]. In that case, researchers at the University of Exeter and the University of Bristol found that the B.1.1.7 variant was associated with a 64 percent greater chance of dying compared to earlier variants. That’s based on an analysis of data from more than 100,000 COVID-19 patients in the U.K. from October 1, 2020, to January 28, 2021.

That this variant comes with increased disease severity and mortality is particularly troubling news, given the highly contagious nature of B.1.1.7. In fact, Davies’ team has concluded that the emergence of new SARS-CoV-2 variants now threaten to slow or even cancel out improvements in COVID-19 treatment that have been made over the last year. These variants include not only B1.1.7, but also B.1.351 originating in South Africa and P.1 from Brazil.

The findings are yet another reminder that, while we’re making truly remarkable progress in the fight against COVID-19 with increasing availability of safe and effective vaccines (more than 45 million Americans are now fully immunized), now is not the time to get complacent. This devastating pandemic isn’t over yet.

The best way to continue the fight against all SARS-CoV-2 variants is for each one of us to do absolutely everything we can to stop their spread. This means that taking the opportunity to get vaccinated as soon as it is offered to you, and continuing to practice those public health measures we summarize as the three Ws: Wear a mask, Watch your distance, Wash your hands often.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and senior Tory Iain Duncan Smith are among more than 70 MPs to launch a campaign opposing Covid passports in England.

Why would you do that? In what way is this discriminatory?
Nothing to do with discrimination, everything to do with freedom from oppressive state control. It's a back door identity card of the sort police states have.

The government failed to get ID cards by law so are trying it again with vaccines as the excuse.
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Woosh

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On BBC News:
UK finds 30 cases of blood clots in people vaccinated with the AZ vaccine.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Let's just clarify that. You hate Boris. You hate Tories. You hate Brexit. You hate all the people who voted for any. You hate the people who might not have voted for any but show slightest support for any one of them.
Its a long long list OG.. and my summary is far from exhaustive. It goes on... And on.
Guilty as charged. Stupidity is a hateful condition, and when the consequences are inflicted on me by these people.
Guess what, I don't actually hate them, just despise them.
Glad to help clear that up, and of course
"Its a long long list OG.. and my summary is far from exhaustive. It goes on... And on.
Well I agree there, but it hasn't stopped you in the past has it?:D
 
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Jesus H Christ

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Dec 31, 2020
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Nothing to do with discrimination, everything to do with freedom from oppressive state control. It's a back door identity card of the sort police states have.

The government failed to get ID cards by law so are trying it again with vaccines as the excuse.
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The passports will not be mandatory, you will be able to choose whether to have one or not. No person will be hauled into a police station for not having one. No person will be pinned to the ground, photographed against their will and an identity card pushed in their top pocket.

This rather blows your Oppressive State Control hysterical nonsense out of the water.
 
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Jesus H Christ

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Dec 31, 2020
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On BBC News:
UK finds 30 cases of blood clots in people vaccinated with the AZ vaccine.
That’s 30 in 18,100,000 doses administered or 0.00017% of people vaccinated. I don’t know how many of the thirty died, maybe none. Would you rather have 18,100,000 people wandering around unvaccinated and exposed to this dangerous disease rather than face the 0.00017% chance of something happening that might not be fatal?

Sorry if this news pi$$es all over your french fries (chips) and spoils your attempt to rubbish the Oxford vaccine.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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The passports will not be mandatory, you will be able to choose whether to have one.

This rather blows your Oppressive State Control hysterical nonsense out of the water.
Yours is the nonsense, as I said, back door, getting people used to the idea, the usual slippery slope.

And there is no choice when admission will often be refused without producing one. It's a bit like the freedom of choice to wear a face mask, but unable to enter almost all premises and public transport without one. These choices are essentially mythical.
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Danidl

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On BBC News:
UK finds 30 cases of blood clots in people vaccinated with the AZ vaccine.
I am not one for conspiracy theories, but I have just realised that a decision by the UK State had made them a vested interest and not an independent arbitrator regarding any side effects of ANY of the vaccines used in the UK. They have absolved the manufacturers of product liability, and have taken it on themselves. Moreover by disregarding the manufacturers protocols ,there is no way any court could find the manufacturers liable..short of lacing all vaccines with cyanide. Therefore and contrary to everything intimated by The Susan/Zatlan axis , all the UK State regulatory agencies are no longer independent arbitrators. It is an unfortunate side effect of the rush to judgement.
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Yesterday, I found out that a medical blood analysing company, Eurofins County Pathology, has had its UKAS accreditation suspend - which means it can no longer operate.

I then went on to look further and found this article in the very questionable (we'll print whatever you pay us to) publication:

This article was sponsored by Eurofins County Pathology Ltd. The Parliamentary Review is wholly funded by the representatives who write for it. The publication in which this article originally appeared contained the following foreword from Rt Hon Elizabeth Truss.

Rt Hon Elizabeth Truss's Foreword For The Parliamentary Review

By Rt Hon Elizabeth Truss


Even by the standards of the day –this has been one of the most exciting and unpredictable years in British politics.

The leadership election we’ve just seen marks a huge moment in our country’s history. This government is taking a decisive new direction, embracing the opportunities of Brexit and preparing our country to flourish outside the EU.

As international trade secretary, I’ll be driving forward work on the free trade agreements that are going to be a priority for the government. Free trade isn’t just an abstract concept bandied around by technocrats. It is crucial for a strong economy and for the ability of families to make ends meet. Free trade benefits people in every part of our country, as British firms export to new markets and people doing the weekly shop have access to a wider choice of goods at lower prices.

The essence of free trade is in the title: freedom. It’s about giving people the power to exchange their goods without heavy government taxation or interference. Commerce and free exchange are the engine room of prosperity and social mobility. I’m determined to tackle the forces who want to hold that back.

One of my priorities is agreeing an exciting new free trade deal with the US, building on the great relationship between our two countries and the Prime Minister and US President. But I’ll also be talking to other partners including New Zealand, Australia and fast-growing Asian markets.

And with the EU too, we want a friendly and constructive relationship, as constitutional equals, and as friends and partners in facing the challenges that lie ahead – a relationship based on a deep free trade agreement. Our country produces some of the world’s most successful exports, and the opportunity to bring these to the rest of the world should make us all excited about the future. It is this excitement, optimism and ambition which I believe will come to define this government.

For too long now, we have been told Britain isn’t big or important enough to survive outside the EU – that we have to accept a deal that reflects our reduced circumstances. I say that’s rubbish. With the right policies in place, we can be the most competitive, free-thinking, prosperous nation on Earth exporting to the world and leading in new developments like AI. To do that, we’ll give the brilliant next generation of entrepreneurs the tools they need to succeed. Since 2015, there has been a staggering 85 per cent rise in the number of businesses set up by 18 to 24 year olds – twice the level set up by the same age group in France and Germany. We’ll help them flourish by championing enterprise, cutting taxes and making regulation flexible and responsive to their needs.

As we do that, we’ll level up and unite all parts of the UK with great transport links, fibre broadband in every home and proper school funding, so everyone shares in our country’s success.

2019 has been the year of brewing economic and political revolution. 2020 will be the year when a revitalised Conservative government turbo charges the economy, boosts prospects for people across the country, and catapults Britain back to the forefront of the world stage.

https://www.theparliamentaryreview.co.uk/organisations/eurofins-county-pathology-ltd

How much of this rosy picture has come to pass?
 

Danidl

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Yours is the nonsense, as I said, back door, getting people used to the idea, the usual slippery slope.

And there is no choice when admission will often be refused without producing one. It's a bit like the freedom of choice to wear a face mask, but unable to enter almost all premises and public transport without one. These choices are essentially mythical.
.
Flecc, I cannot see anything intrinsically wrong with having an Identity Card. It wasn't a requirement when the peasants lived their entire lives within a single valley and were known to their lords and masters and everyone else in the village. As an OAP I now have one, and it covers travel, access to state services , and is linked by number to my health services. Moreover it can be used as my EHIC when in France.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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I note this comment:

The green pass, launched last month and eyed as a potential strategy by countries such as Britain, has been credited with helping motivate unvaccinated Israelis to get the jab. At the Jerusalem arena, Avishag Buskila, 26, said the app was why she finally decided to do so.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/02/really-good-place-israel-nearing-covid-endgame

Makes me suspect that any Covid Passport system for the UK would likely be intended to apply pressure to get vaccinated rather than provide safety at the venues. Which might be arguable but should be declared. Not obfuscated.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Yesterday, I found out that a medical blood analysing company, Eurofins County Pathology, has had its UKAS accreditation suspend - which means it can no longer operate.

I then went on to look further and found this article in the very questionable (we'll print whatever you pay us to) publication:

This article was sponsored by Eurofins County Pathology Ltd. The Parliamentary Review is wholly funded by the representatives who write for it. The publication in which this article originally appeared contained the following foreword from Rt Hon Elizabeth Truss.

Rt Hon Elizabeth Truss's Foreword For The Parliamentary Review

By Rt Hon Elizabeth Truss


Even by the standards of the day –this has been one of the most exciting and unpredictable years in British politics.

The leadership election we’ve just seen marks a huge moment in our country’s history. This government is taking a decisive new direction, embracing the opportunities of Brexit and preparing our country to flourish outside the EU.

As international trade secretary, I’ll be driving forward work on the free trade agreements that are going to be a priority for the government. Free trade isn’t just an abstract concept bandied around by technocrats. It is crucial for a strong economy and for the ability of families to make ends meet. Free trade benefits people in every part of our country, as British firms export to new markets and people doing the weekly shop have access to a wider choice of goods at lower prices.

The essence of free trade is in the title: freedom. It’s about giving people the power to exchange their goods without heavy government taxation or interference. Commerce and free exchange are the engine room of prosperity and social mobility. I’m determined to tackle the forces who want to hold that back.

One of my priorities is agreeing an exciting new free trade deal with the US, building on the great relationship between our two countries and the Prime Minister and US President. But I’ll also be talking to other partners including New Zealand, Australia and fast-growing Asian markets.

And with the EU too, we want a friendly and constructive relationship, as constitutional equals, and as friends and partners in facing the challenges that lie ahead – a relationship based on a deep free trade agreement. Our country produces some of the world’s most successful exports, and the opportunity to bring these to the rest of the world should make us all excited about the future. It is this excitement, optimism and ambition which I believe will come to define this government.

For too long now, we have been told Britain isn’t big or important enough to survive outside the EU – that we have to accept a deal that reflects our reduced circumstances. I say that’s rubbish. With the right policies in place, we can be the most competitive, free-thinking, prosperous nation on Earth exporting to the world and leading in new developments like AI. To do that, we’ll give the brilliant next generation of entrepreneurs the tools they need to succeed. Since 2015, there has been a staggering 85 per cent rise in the number of businesses set up by 18 to 24 year olds – twice the level set up by the same age group in France and Germany. We’ll help them flourish by championing enterprise, cutting taxes and making regulation flexible and responsive to their needs.

As we do that, we’ll level up and unite all parts of the UK with great transport links, fibre broadband in every home and proper school funding, so everyone shares in our country’s success.

2019 has been the year of brewing economic and political revolution. 2020 will be the year when a revitalised Conservative government turbo charges the economy, boosts prospects for people across the country, and catapults Britain back to the forefront of the world stage.

https://www.theparliamentaryreview.co.uk/organisations/eurofins-county-pathology-ltd

How much of this rosy picture has come to pass?
I am not going to refer to the political message, but the Eurofins operation is basically an international franchise. With at least another 20 plus labs in the UK alone, so a single lab losing accreditation for any reason is not very important ..in the great scheme of things
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,257
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Flecc, I cannot see anything intrinsically wrong with having an Identity Card.
I don't see anything intrinsically wrong either, but they have unfortunately become associated with oppressive police states since the early 20th century which leads to many like those MPs objecting to them.

Personally I don't want them since I travel light and don't want the hassle of having to carry one everywhere. For the same reason I've never carried any driving documents and they've been made unnecessary by technology anyway.

And so have ID cards to some extent, our police carry the means to fingerprint read now and are using facial recognition too.
 
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oyster

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I am not going to refer to the political message, but the Eurofins operation is basically an international franchise. With at least another 20 plus labs in the UK alone, so a single lab losing accreditation for any reason is not very important ..in the great scheme of things
It is to the lab.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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The decision UK government took to be part of liability, removing it from companies was one of processes that helped get vaccines out quickly and the decision is double edged.
With government, society in fact, in firing line for claims in future puts more oweness on them to make right decisions. Yep, we know all the left wing loony tune clowns on here will see it differently.
On the 30 blood clots found in the 18 million plus recipients of the quasi effective, coma inducing AZ poison, how many were in the un vaccinated... Oh, hang on a minute UK doesn't have many of those now.
I think breathing has got awfully dangerous these days, let's face it all these people breathing and getting cancer, having accidents and dying of covid. Must be the air.. Its only thing we all do so must be..
Stop breathing, you won't catch anything and accidents will never happen. Sorted.
30 clots out of 18 million vaccinated.
You really are more likely to die from using toaster in kitchen this morning. That's it, no toast for Woosh and OG. It's too dangerous. And it causes cancer anyway.

I, ve just looked figures up, check by all means. Electricution by household appliances in the home is way above 30 per year... So I checked down the list to find a risk on par with the 30 quoted. It's taking a bath. Apparently on average every year 30 people die (by accident, not suicide) in the bath.. And that's drowning not having some contract killer chucking a heater in with you. That's it for Woosh and OG. Bin the bath..
 
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Jesus H Christ

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Dec 31, 2020
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Yours is the nonsense, as I said, back door, getting people used to the idea, the usual slippery slope.

And there is no choice when admission will often be refused without producing one. It's a bit like the freedom of choice to wear a face mask, but unable to enter almost all premises and public transport without one. These choices are essentially mythical.
.
Thats a silly answer.

What you are saying is that entry will be conditional in some establishments based upon the vaccination passport. A commercial decision undertaken by the establishment owner.

Conditions of entry have always exited. I can’t get into some pubs in trainers or certain restaurants in shorts for example. A requirement for vaccination is no different and I don’t remember you getting excited about shorts and trainers.

If an establishment wants to exclude the anti-vaxers, the anti-face nappy brigade and the Covid hoax supporters from areas that I want frequent, that’s absolutely fine with me.

I won’t be joining you in establishments that choose not to exclude the fools that I refer to in the previous paragraph.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Saying 126,000 died because of this Govt's handling is utterly ridiculous.
Perhaps some might have been saved with different decisions but then again they might not. Perhaps more would have died with changes. The simple fact is we do not know. Yet.
You dismiss every intelligent, reasoned investigation into causes of death rate for your alarmingly simple explanation. The government. Missing out social injustice, obesity, population density, folk ignoring covid, covid deniers, anti vaxers, diabetes, age distribution, housing, hypertension, exercise, nutrition, etc etc and simply blame... Boris.
You are obsessed and deluded. You are making it party political and shouldn't be. We should be looking for the real causes not playing political blame game.
Interestingly the man you voted for at the election refused any form of social distancing well after Boris had giving instructions to do so. You know the bloke, the anti EU Labour leader with drug dealing son, the one who pretends he, s poor but has millions stashed away..
Since when did you indulge in intelligent reasoned investigation?
let's take that first remark of yours
"Saying 126,000 died because of this Govt's handling is utterly ridiculous."
The Government is responsible for the Health and Safety of the population
Compare that with New Zealand
And you are unable to see the real reasons?
And another thing , as I said before I am no fan of the Labour leaders pst and present, but then you either fail utterly to understand my post, or just automatically post rubbish and a sermon in response
And now you are trying to pass yourself off as the voice of reason?

Have you asked Susan her opinion too? :D
 
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