Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Hang on a minute here Flecc and OG. Aa 6 Yr old brought up by Orang Utangs in Borneo could understand OG's posts.
He says UK should have done as well as New Zealand... That's hardly pulitzer prize material is it. Or he says "AZ has had 30 blood clotting incidents".
Jesus, anybody would think he, s explaining quantum physics.
OG operates at a level of "anything to do with Tory govt is bad". Whether it's good bad or different is irrelevant to him.
He can't even make up his mind whether vaccine is risky or not. One post he says it is, next day he, s stood in queu demanding his right for second. Next day he, s back to telling anybody without sense to not listen that it's risky.
Come on OG, should AZ vaccine roll out have been delayed in various countries.? Yes or no. Not some wishy washy bull sh! T. Seems you change your mind on it every day.
You could always blame the vaccine, seen as you took the extremely dangerous risk of having it.

You are doing it again, making your own versions of reality I have not said the AZ vaccine shouldn't be rolled out anywhere
What I have said is that is a decision for the countries using it to make
At no point have I changed my mind on that, you have decided I have when it simply isn't true.
What I have remarked on is the perfectly valid points that the AZ vaccine has a higher incidence of lethal and non lethal side effects than the pfizer one.
You can verify the facts for yourself, here is the link
Coronavirus Vaccine - summary of Yellow Card reeporting
Had they offered the AZ vaccine I would have accepted that myself
And I haven't said otherwise, have I?

You really need to get your imagination house trained, or at the very least buy the darned thing a dog collar and lead.
Come to think of it a muzzle wouldn't go amiss either

 

[oldgroaner]

Yep, of course.
Just to put your stupid comparison in perspective.
It is believed one of major influences on a countries ability to cope/reduce/get decent out come from Covid is population density.
New Zealand has 18 occupants for every square kilometer.
England has 275. Yep, great shout OG, like all your posts. Utter BS.
What UK should have done for a better outcome is send 55 million or so people to live in NZ... UK could have had a fantastic outcome then.

Speaking of stupid comments....Yours that is

Uk population 66.8 Million Coronavirus deaths. ......127,000
Japan population 126.3 Million Coronavirus deaths ........... 9,173

Now what do those figures say to you? the Japanese are lucky?

You really shouldn't push your luck arguing , when you clearly haven't a clue as to what you are talking about.

 

[Zlatan]

Speaking of stupid comments....Yours that is

Uk population 66.8 Million Coronavirus deaths. ......127,000
Japan population 126.3 Million Coronavirus deaths ........... 9,173

Now what do those figures say to you? the Japanese are lucky?

You really shouldn't push your luck arguing , when you clearly haven't a clue as to what you are talking about.

Oh, so New Zealand has now morphed into Japan. That was clever. I never saw a thing.
Yep, Vietnam has done well too. Probably because in both Japan and Vietnam they listen to the government and follow instructions instead of knocking it all the time.
And Japan/Korea/Vietnam society had experienced SARS.
But, yes, we do need to know why Japan has done well and Italy hasn't. But guessing as you are doing won't help.
We need to examine the facts and causes and not the prejudices you are dominated by.

Coronavirus: Japan's mysteriously low virus death rate

Japan had no lockdown, it has an elderly population - so why haven't more people died from Covid-19?

www.bbc.com

Why don't you contact BBC and solve the mystery for the whole world. Seems you know answer. Japan didn't have Tories. (but read the article and see what actions were taken)

 

[flecc]

What UK should have done for a better outcome is send 55 million or so people to live in NZ... UK could have had a fantastic outcome then.

Can we start by having a correct reading of who is involved?

The UK isn't in any way involved in the individual nations vaccine rollout or even the control of Covid-19. The three countries within Great Britain are individually doing both of those. The government of Great Britain and N.I. is dealing with vaccine purchasing.

Just as the EU is only involved in the purchasing of the vaccines. The rollout and control of Covid-19 are dealt with by the individual EU member countries.
.

 

[Danidl]

Oh, so New Zealand has now morphed into Japan. That was clever. I never saw a thing.
Yep, Vietnam has done well too. Probably because in both Japan and Vietnam they listen to the government and follow instructions instead of knocking it all the time.
And Japan/Korea/Vietnam society had experienced SARS.
But, yes, we do need to know why Japan has done well and Italy hasn't. But guessing as you are doing won't help.
We need to examine the facts and causes and not the prejudices you are dominated by.

.. talk about hoisting petards, .. it is precisely because the UK population listened to their elected Government ,,that the disaster built up in the UK. . OGs argument , because he is too self effacing to make it himself is that Japan, which incidentally is a island or a collection of Islands, and is even more densely populated than the UK, and is a global trading entity, and is larger and listened to their Government, that they did well. Its not the listening or not listening which matters, it is the advice and the credibility of that advice. That exactly is where the UK went wrong.
Go back to March a year ago. It was the Rugby Union in Wales and the FA which pulled the plug, not the UK State. It was the mammies in Belfast who pulled their kids from schools, while Ms Foster was bleating about Westminster

 

[Zlatan]

Danidl
You haven't even had time to read the article. I wasn't saying Japan had done well solely because of listening or ignoring advice. There is plainly something else at play.
The Japanese did not lock down, did not suffer severe restrictions as we did yet have done far better. The article summises SARS but admits "nobody really knows".. Except a few idiots on a pedelec forum.
Perhaps OG having brought Japan into argument because he was wrong about New Zealand would like to tell us how UK should have behaved.. Copy Japan's actions?, Do very little? Sort of opposite of actions taken by our Tory Government.
But, in reality we all know precisely why Japan did so well, its because they didn't have Boris or Tories. Mystery Solved. Keep it simple eh...

 

[Danidl]

Can we start by having a correct reading of who is involved?

The UK isn't in any way involved in the vaccine rollout or even the control of Covid-19. The three countries within Great Britain are individually doing both of those. The government of Great Britain is dealing with vaccine purchasing. The UK government have no involvement with any Covid matter.

Just as the EU is only involved in the purchasing of the vaccines. The rollout and control of Covid-19 are dealt with by the individual EU member countries.
.

Not exactly... In the EU a policy decision was made to allocate any centrally purchased vaccine s on a per capita basis so for instance with any shipment Ireland would get 5/450 of the supply. That is centralised. How and where this quota gets distributed then becomes the property of the National Government. So if Ireland decided to give their quota initially to the over 85s and ICU staff, so be it. If Hungry decided on cabinet ministers and police ..that is their call.

 

[Danidl]

View attachment 41662View attachment 41663View attachment 41664

Danidl
You haven't even had time to read the article. I wasn't saying Japan had done well solely because of listening or ignoring advice. There is plainly something else at play.
The Japanese did not lock down, did not suffer severe restrictions as we did yet have done far better. The article summises SARS but admits "nobody really knows".. Except a few idiots on a pedelec forum.

You don't need to test if you use quarantine effectively from the get go. You don't need to lockdown without cases. That is the evidence from everywhere. The world has known this for at least 1500 years.
The irony of this is that this was the first positive outcome from Brexit. The UK COULD close its borders as tight as it wished without legal sanction

 

[oldgroaner]

Oh, so New Zealand has now morphed into Japan. That was clever. I never saw a thing.
Yep, Vietnam has done well too. Probably because in both Japan and Vietnam they listen to the government and follow instructions instead of knocking it all the time.
And Japan/Korea/Vietnam society had experienced SARS.
But, yes, we do need to know why Japan has done well and Italy hasn't. But guessing as you are doing won't help.
We need to examine the facts and causes and not the prejudices you are dominated by.

Coronavirus: Japan's mysteriously low virus death rate

Japan had no lockdown, it has an elderly population - so why haven't more people died from Covid-19?

www.bbc.com

Why don't you contact BBC and solve the mystery for the whole world. Seems you know answer. Japan didn't have Tories. (but read the article and see what actions were taken)

hilarious response, well done

 

[Zlatan]

.. talk about hoisting petards, .. it is precisely because the UK population listened to their elected Government ,,that the disaster built up in the UK. . OGs argument , because he is too self effacing to make it himself is that Japan, which incidentally is a island or a collection of Islands, and is even more densely populated than the UK, and is a global trading entity, and is larger and listened to their Government, that they did well. Its not the listening or not listening which matters, it is the advice and the credibility of that advice. That exactly is where the UK went wrong.
Go back to March a year ago. It was the Rugby Union in Wales and the FA which pulled the plug, not the UK State. It was the mammies in Belfast who pulled their kids from schools, while Ms Foster was bleating about Westminster

As usual all utterly wrong. Read the article.

 

[flecc]

Oh, so New Zealand has now morphed into Japan. That was clever. I never saw a thing.
Yep, Vietnam has done well too. Probably because in both Japan and Vietnam they listen to the government and follow instructions instead of knocking it all the time.
And Japan/Korea/Vietnam society had experienced SARS.
But, yes, we do need to know why Japan has done well and Italy hasn't. But guessing as you are doing won't help.
We need to examine the facts and causes and not the prejudices you are dominated by.

Coronavirus: Japan's mysteriously low virus death rate

Japan had no lockdown, it has an elderly population - so why haven't more people died from Covid-19?

www.bbc.com

Why don't you contact BBC and solve the mystery for the whole world. Seems you know answer. Japan didn't have Tories. (but read the article and see what actions were taken)

That's a disgraceful answer to OG. You objected to the NZ example on the basis of population density, so OG replied appropriately with Japan and its high population density and also on islands in the Pacific. There was nothing to criticise there, except in your crazed imagination.
.

 

[flecc]

View attachment 41662View attachment 41663View attachment 41664

Just like Sweden, who've been more successful than us since they didn't waste £400 billions in failing to control Covid-19.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

But, in reality we all know precisely why Japan did so well, its because they didn't have Boris or Tories. Mystery Solved. Keep it simple eh...
[/QUOTE]
Congrats Susan, I knew you'd get there in the end!

 

[Zlatan]

That's a disgraceful answer to OG. You objected to the NZ example on the basis of population density, so OG replied appropriately with Japan and its high population density and also on islands in the Pacific. There was nothing to criticise there, except in your crazed imagination.
.

Don't worry about OG flecc. He, s more than capable of holding his own, even when he, s talking bo!! ox,well all time really I suppose.

 

[oyster]

the Japanese are lucky?

No - they are an island...

Ah, that didn't go right!

 

[Zlatan]

Just like Sweden, who've been more successful than us since they didn't waste £400 billions in failing to control Covid-19.
.

Well that's the dilemna isn't it. As our government done too much or not enough? You generally argue too much, most argue not enough.
Sweden when compared with its nearest neighbours hasn't done so well at all...

 

[Zlatan]

Holland just stopped AZ vaccine for under 60s. Thousands of appointments cancelled.

 

[Zlatan]

That's a disgraceful answer to OG. You objected to the NZ example on the basis of population density, so OG replied appropriately with Japan and its high population density and also on islands in the Pacific. There was nothing to criticise there, except in your crazed imagination.
.

You are having another snowy moment flecc. There isn't a single insult in there, except in your imagination of course.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Some pubs and restaurants.

With vaccine passports it will no doubt be all those premises, as it is with mask wearing.

So as I said, no choice and thus in no way a silly answer.
.

It might not be all. You’ve no way of knowing that. You are guessing.

I don’t think BoJo will be brave enough to make it mandatory. He will do his usual trick and leave it up to individual establishments to decide.

I hope then that many places will insist on vaccination passports as a condition of entry. That will keep those people out who I wish not to clap eyes on, or associate with. This could be a good thing.

 

[Zlatan]

But, in reality we all know precisely why Japan did so well, its because they didn't have Boris or Tories. Mystery Solved. Keep it simple eh...

Congrats Susan, I knew you'd get there in the end!
[/QUOTE]
Tell you what Jonathon, think I, m going to keep posting as Suzan. Never had so many PMs... Thought I was going to get a marriage proposal... From folk who normally swear and shout... I might blackmail a few with threat of posting messages sent to Suzan...??!!!