Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Which option do you want? There are three available.

1/ Stay at home and live the life of a hermit.

2/ Catch Coronavirus and take your chances.

3/ Take the vaccine, take the small risk and stop over analysing it.

I’d rather have some form of normality without any risk, but that’s not one of the options available to us. (3) is my choice. It won’t deliver April 2019, but I can adapt to live and do 90% of what I want to under (3).

If you read anything I had written it is obviously option# 3 .. Remember I choose an option last September with a 1/50 fatality risk and then again a month later at 1/50 risk, cumulative risk 1/25.. But until #3 is available, I choose #1. And option #3 will be available.
I would rate my survival as 9/10 with A good dose of CV19, and my son at 1/3 if he were to get CV19. So I want him getting the vaccine before me.

 

[oyster]

Not a very constructive reply..... I have been led to believe that the shot is just to genetically modify things in your body - it's not a genuine vaccine as understood in the past, but I am no scientist. I watch videos, I try to understand and make my own decisions.

If, by "genetically modify" you mean that it changes your DNA and the genetic material you would pass on to any offspring, then no, it doesn't do that.

What makes something a "genuine vaccine"?

Getting a dose of cowpox was not a genuine vaccine. Vaccines simply tried to trigger the reaction in your immune system but without actually making you ill. So the vaccines descended from this cowpox were chosen to be less serious in their impacts. Or not as ill as the disease you are trying to protect from.

 

[Zlatan]

If you read anything I had written it is obviously option# 3 .. Remember I choose an option last September with a 1/50 fatality risk and then again a month later at 1/50 risk, cumulative risk 1/25.. But until #3 is available, I choose #1. And option #3 will be available.
I would rate my survival as 9/10 with A good dose of CV19, and my son at 1/3 if he were to get CV19. So I want him getting the vaccine before me.

But you both could (should) have had vaccine by now. I put my chances about same as you... Now I, ve had vaccine its probably more like 99.9% of surviving. (or that's how I see it)

 

[oldgroaner]

That is totally irrelevant to my post which made no mention of hospitalisation and death.

I posted that the vaccine only prevents catching covid and tramsmission to a degree, certainly nothing like 97%, and that is true because you prove it by your post. All those prevented from going into hospital had to catch it despite being vaccinated for your outcome to be measured !

That it limits the effect on those who do still catch it despite being vaccinated is true, but I didn't post about that.

So for the umpteenth time please read what I post, not what you imagine.
.

 

[Zlatan]

If, by "genetically modify" you mean that it changes your DNA and the genetic material you would pass on to any offspring, then no, it doesn't do that.

What makes something a "genuine vaccine"?

Getting a dose of cowpox was not a genuine vaccine. Vaccines simply tried to trigger the reaction in your immune system but without actually making you ill. So the vaccines descended from this cowpox were chosen to be less serious in their impacts. Or not as ill as the disease you are trying to protect from.

The confusion has arisen because Pfizer is made by genetically modifying its structure, but that has no bearing at all on us. Our bodies still see the invader as just another virus. It's action has nothing at all to do with our DNA,does not go near it (well not directly apart from swimming in it).
It has no action to perform on any DNA, or RNA. Its just a virus as far as our bodies are concerned. Our bodies develop antibodies to latch on and T cells to attack it if it gets past anti body defence. Without the prior knowledge body would be trying to learn that response and fight the virus by other means. It doesn't have time, if the virus wins we die. In hospital the strategy is simply to buy time whilst our bodies work out how to fight. The vaccine tells it before the fight starts.
Just my simplistic view of it..

 

[oldgroaner]

If you get one offered. We have been at front of a queu with billions of people in it. Said it weeks ago, imagine queuing up to get in at Wembley with 99,000 people behind you. That's about where our govt, AZ, Oxford, JCVI, Mhra have put you. Right at front. Appreciate it.

Why? I have already said I would have been prepared to wait, the choice was not offered, by jumping the queue we really lost a huge amount of trust with the rest of the world where people, unbelievable to some on here as you are fond of saying, are just as human as we are.
Why are you seeing that as being a smart move? why didn't we come to agreement with other countries and do the job democratically?
The answer is this government only cares about it's own popularity and is morally bankrupt.
Imagine how this underhand approach is seen abroad, and on top of all the other dodgy lies and law breaking too.

 

[flecc]

Heston Blomanthall was telling us to talk nicely to rice Inn jars if we want nice curries.
Unfortunately the world is awash with mis led, badly informed people.

Prince Charles would want to have a chat with the rice plant to see what it thinks before deciding.
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[Jesus H Christ]

Only because none of them failed?
What if they all had?
So if I need a new car in a hurry I order every new model from all manufacturers and give them pots of cash.
One is quicker than the others, it turns out it works
But has production problems so i can't get enough to follow the manufactures instructions and when I was expecting it to have ABS I have to wait not two weeks but twelve for that
And it turns out a few have dodgy brakes and kill one or two people
Gotta laugh!
Sorry

OG, in an emergency situation it’s wise to have several plans running in parallel. You do that in case one of them fails. If you put all of your faith in one plan, and it fails, it leaves you with a bad situation.

I spent some of my working life in search & rescue. If you have in injured walker lost on the moors, you always have mountain rescue, on foot, a second unit of mountain rescue as backup in case the weather prevents a helicopter reaching the scene, a helicopter in case mountain rescue can’t reach the scene and sometimes a second helicopter in case the first one goes tech. You never approach a life & death situation in a sequential series of events.

Exactly the same process was used to procure the vaccine. Several were committed to incase one or more failed. I’m very surprised I’ve had to explain this to you. The U.K. were not alone, I believe the EU adopted a similar strategy, if not a little later than the U.K.

Thank god you weren’t anywhere near this process.

 

[flecc]

in an emergency situation it’s wise to have several plans running in parallel. You do that in case one of them fails. If you put all of your faith in one plan, and it fails, it leaves you with a bad situation.

Ah I see. You mean like the blind leap into leaving the EU with no plan B in place.

That's certainly left us with a bad situation.
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[Jesus H Christ]

Ah I see. You mean like the blind leap into leaving the EU with no plan B in place.

That's certainly left us with a bad situation.
.

Agreed.

But you must see the sense in having several plans running in parallel, such as that with the vaccine procurement process? I think it was common for other countries to commit to several in case one failed. I’m sure the EU did exactly the same.

Perhaps not ....

 

[Jesus H Christ]

if you remember, my wife had a strange experience with her Covid vaccination. It appears non of the vaccine stayed in her arm.

My wife tried to contact her GP. Won’t respond until 6 April. Advised to phone 111.

She’s phoned 111, they said phone 119.

The wife phoned 119, they said contact your GP.

She re contacted the GP surgery and outlined the above. They said 6 April, contact 111.

She phoned 111, briefed them. They said contract 119.

Phoned 119, they said see your doctor.

I’ve got a mate who’s the lead clinician at a big vaccination hub. I’ve contacted him, he said send her down here now and we’ll sort it out.

She’s at the vaccination hub.

God save the NHS.

 

[Woosh]

What makes something a "genuine vaccine"?

The confusion has arisen because Pfizer is made by genetically modifying its structure, but that has no bearing at all on us.

The Pfizer vaccine is an mRNA, m = messenger. It does not interfere with our DNA but uses the infected cell to produce the real vaccine, the spike protein.
The AZ vaccine is a real virus, it is called a vector virus because it is genetically modified to contain a small fraction of Covid RNA. This virus had some of its genes removed to stop it replicating itself in our body. The virus is used to transfect a large quantity of HEK (human embryonic kidney cells). The HEK cells are genetically modified and brewed in the traditional sense like you would brew beer. After a few days, the virus invade the HEK cells, get itself reproduced in very large quantity and kill all the HEK cells. It sounds gruesome but that's just the way it works. The virus is then extracted from the resulting soup and purified by centrifugation. That virus concentrate is then bottled up as AZ vaccine. After injection, the virus invade our cells and get our cells to produce the spike protein that you have heard talked about last year. The spike protein produced by the AZ vaccine is very similar to that produced by the Pfizer. That's the real vaccine.
The Pfizer vaccine is encapsulated in a fatty shell like a tiny Ferrero rocher. It is seen as food and swallowed by our cells so gives little to no reaction after injection. It's only when it starts to work that you may see some side effects.
NHS yellow card system shows roughly twice as many adverse effect reports after AZ injection compared to Pfizer but that 's only superficial comparison.
So to recap, the real vaccine is the spike protein of SARS-COV2. It is produced by our body and can't give us the disease. It tells our body: try to get me. Our body will figure out how to destroy the spikes. It will take time for our body to learn how to do that well. About 1-3 months.
Some people are good at it, some aren't. That's just down to your genetic.
Any country can build their own facilities to make Covid vaccines but they still need to respect copyrights.

 

[Woosh]

Thank god you weren’t anywhere near this process.

thanks to Germany's Pfizer factory in Marburg selling us 12 million doses and I am not repeating what you call them.

 

[flecc]

if you remember, my wife had a strange experience with her Covid vaccination. It appears non of the vaccine stayed in her arm.

My wife tried to contact her GP. Won’t respond until 6 April. Advised to phone 111.

She’s phoned 111, they said phone 119.

The wife phoned 119, they said contact your GP.

She re contacted the GP surgery and outlined the above. They said 6 April, contact 111.

She phoned 111, briefed them. They said contract 119.

Phoned 119, they said see your doctor.

I’ve got a mate who’s the lead clinician at a big vaccination hub. I’ve contacted him, he said send her down here now and we’ll sort it out.

She’s at the vaccination hub.

God save the NHS.

LINK
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[oldgroaner]

I withdraw the name calling. You are frustrating me!

We can't have that, can we , so rather than being a party pooper I withdraw the request, please return to normal service as usual

 

[Danidl]

But you both could (should) have had vaccine by now. I put my chances about same as you... Now I, ve had vaccine its probably more like 99.9% of surviving. (or that's how I see it)

How?. The quantity is just not there. Had the wobbly not happened last week, my son would have his AZ. First Jab. It is now rescheduled for Monday. Had the EU not taken the lead from Germany and France, the chances are there would be none at all for Ireland. Thinking this through a bit, I am starting to suspect that some of the anti EU stuff from right wing Germany is because UVDL took her oath to the EU seriously.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, in an emergency situation it’s wise to have several plans running in parallel. You do that in case one of them fails. If you put all of your faith in one plan, and it fails, it leaves you with a bad situation.

I spent some of my working life in search & rescue. If you have in injured walker lost on the moors, you always have mountain rescue, on foot, a second unit of mountain rescue as backup in case the weather prevents a helicopter reaching the scene, a helicopter in case mountain rescue can’t reach the scene and sometimes a second helicopter in case the first one goes tech. You never approach a life & death situation in a sequential series of events.

Exactly the same process was used to procure the vaccine. Several were committed to incase one or more failed. I’m very surprised I’ve had to explain this to you. The U.K. were not alone, I believe the EU adopted a similar strategy, if not a little later than the U.K.

Thank god you weren’t anywhere near this process.

You really have no idea how I react to a situation, have you?

I completely understand ,and have explained, the motivation behind ,our vaccine procurement, and obviously it was completely devoid of any semblance of planning, or care about levels of risk being taken, nor the effect this sleight of hand would have on the level of trust other nations of our motives.
As to this
"OG, in an emergency situation it’s wise to have several plans running in parallel. You do that in case one of them fails. If you put all of your faith in one plan, and it fails, it leaves you with a bad situation."

And we didn't have a single one that could actually be described as fully thought out.
FYI My job was to tackle situations that had gone out of control, and fix them pragmatically
Look up the word if you don't understand it
Clearly no one in the government does

 

[Danidl]

if you remember, my wife had a strange experience with her Covid vaccination. It appears non of the vaccine stayed in her arm.

My wife tried to contact her GP. Won’t respond until 6 April. Advised to phone 111.

She’s phoned 111, they said phone 119.

The wife phoned 119, they said contact your GP.

She re contacted the GP surgery and outlined the above. They said 6 April, contact 111.

She phoned 111, briefed them. They said contract 119.

Phoned 119, they said see your doctor.

I’ve got a mate who’s the lead clinician at a big vaccination hub. I’ve contacted him, he said send her down here now and we’ll sort it out.

She’s at the vaccination hub.

God save the NHS.

What you had described did seem to me consistent with injecting just under the skin

 

[Jesus H Christ]

We can't have that, can we , so rather than being a party pooper I withdraw the request, please return to normal service as usual

****

 

[Nev]

This Guardian correspondent based in Spain, is worth reading to see what he thinks of the EU and European leaders when it comes to vaccine roll out.
The EU's AstraZeneca vaccine stance will cost lives, here in Spain and all over Europe | Vaccines and immunisation | The Guardian