Brexit, for once some facts.

[Jesus H Christ]

Sticks in your throat.. the Irish Executive Director ... Emer Cooke.

Not really the EMA has no influence as far as I’m concerned. It has little or no relevance to what happens in the U.K. I’m just pointing out the fact that she said, the vaccine is safe and effective. Something which you emphatically denied earlier and something else which you got wrong, again.

There is a danger associated with you. We know you and your long track record of getting almost everything wrong. A newcomer may not have the benefit of our prior knowledge and could take you seriously with the consequence of harmful effects.

 

[flecc]

“the vaccine is safe and effective.”

You'd better be on your best behaviour now, new French member piper.classique has just joined pedelecs and she doesn't look like she'll stand any nonsense:

Information Link
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

At last you get something right.
.

Thank you.

 

[Danidl]

Not really the EMA has no influence as far as I’m concerned. It has little or no relevance to what happens in the U.K. I’m just pointing out the fact that she said, the vaccine is safe and effective. Something which you emphatically denied earlier and something else which you got wrong, again.

There is a danger associated with you. We know you and your long track record of getting almost everything wrong. A newcomer may not have the benefit of our prior knowledge and could take you seriously with the consequence of harmful effects.

I have searched back over a number of pages,..and I cannot find the offending statement.. but I think that the adjective" Perfectly " , as in" perfectly safe " was used. .. Perhaps you can correct me on that.
Every engineering , scientific , medical intervention includes risk. The majority of my answers have referred to that. Only a PR or marketing person uses unqualified absolutes .

 

[Zlatan]

After all the additional analysis their recommendation has a foundation rather then a belief based partly on hope.

Extra analysis... You are joking aren't you. They have had no more data, no more trials, no more investigation. They have sat around a table, discussed where they would like to go on holiday and then said "let's repeat what we said last week..but in different order.
"keep on vaccinating, there might be a link, but then again there might not, but numbers are so tiny it doesn't really matter either way"
They are in exactly same situation as a week ago, know nothing new, they probably checked their sums again, re looked at same data and reworded same conclusion.
Its proven itself to be nothing more than a quango which folk can choose to ignore or listen to depending what political message they want sending out. The governments have behaved like utter clowns. Ignore the advice last week. Listen this. Ridiculous.
I, m surprised most on here haven't seen through the BS.
What a surprise. They gave vaccine a clean bill of health... Sort of like they did last week. Sort of like WHO did last week. Sort of like JCVI did last week. And you buy into it.

 

[Danidl]

Extra analysis... You are joking aren't you. They have had no more data, no more trials, no more investigation. They have sat around a table, discussed where they would like to go on holiday and then said "let's repeat what we said last week..but in different order.
"keep on vaccinating, there might be a link, but then again there might not, but numbers are so tiny it doesn't really matter either way"
They are in exactly same situation as a week ago, know nothing new, they probably checked their sums again, re looked at same data and reworded same conclusion.
Its proven itself to be nothing more than a quango which folk can choose to ignore or listen to depending what political message they want sending out. The governments have behaved like utter clowns. Ignore the advice last week. Listen this. Ridiculous.
I, m surprised most on here haven't seen through the BS.
What a surprise. They gave vaccine a clean bill of health... Sort of like they did last week. Sort of like WHO did last week. Sort of like JCVI did last week. And you buy into it.

Except remember that UK AZ lady who said that the number of blood clots was LESS than random expectation . Didn't back it up with numbers.and she had 11 M potential data points.

 

[Zlatan]

Except remember that UK AZ lady who said that the number of blood clots was LESS than random expectation . Didn't back it up with numbers.and she had 11 M potential data points.

And..
They have made same decision Danidl.
Vaccine is safe today, was safe yesterday and last week. Exactly as they have all been saying. Nobody has changed, no extra data generated. Nothing. But for some odd reason you are happy with their advice now, but happy it was ignored last week.
I could understand your opinion if EMA had said stop vaccination pending analysis. They didn't. They said its safe last week and with not a jot of more data have said same again,yet you flecc and a few others say they have Now got it right. They had it right last week. The only difference is you and some strange governments have now chosen to believe them and for no objective reason.
There is simply no consistency to your reasoning. There are no extra reasons for EMA decision to hold any more validity than it did last week.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not really the EMA has no influence as far as I’m concerned. It has little or no relevance to what happens in the U.K. I’m just pointing out the fact that she said, the vaccine is safe and effective. Something which you emphatically denied earlier and something else which you got wrong, again.

There is a danger associated with you. We know you and your long track record of getting almost everything wrong. A newcomer may not have the benefit of our prior knowledge and could take you seriously with the consequence of harmful effects.

Wow! I never expected you to make a full confession!
Just substitute the word "You" for "me" and it's fine!

"There is a danger associated with you. We know you and your long track record of getting almost everything wrong. A newcomer may not have the benefit of our prior knowledge and could take you seriously with the consequence of harmful effects.

Well done you for coming clean (well, almost)

 

[oldgroaner]

And..
They have made same decision Danidl.
Vaccine is safe today, was safe yesterday and last week. Exactly as they have all been saying. Nobody has changed, no extra data generated. Nothing. But for some odd reason you are happy with their advice now, but happy it was ignored last week.
I could understand your opinion if EMA had said stop vaccination pending analysis. They didn't. They said its safe last week and with not a jot of more data have said same again,yet you flecc and a few others say they have Now got it right. They had it right last week. The only difference is you and some strange governments have now chosen to believe them and for no objective reason.
There is simply no consistency to your reasoning. There are no extra reasons for EMA decision to hold any more validity than it did last week.

Proof is ever proof was needed that this is the first thread that has continuous contact between recent history and an inverted alternative reality.
Wherein a sort of satirical slapstick inversion of reason, cause and effect holds sway.

We should start a TV company under the genre "Unreality TV"

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Except remember that UK AZ lady who said that the number of blood clots was LESS than random expectation . Didn't back it up with numbers.and she had 11 M potential data points.

That’s meaningless garbage.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

And..
They have made same decision Danidl.
Vaccine is safe today, was safe yesterday and last week. Exactly as they have all been saying. Nobody has changed, no extra data generated. Nothing. But for some odd reason you are happy with their advice now, but happy it was ignored last week.
I could understand your opinion if EMA had said stop vaccination pending analysis. They didn't. They said its safe last week and with not a jot of more data have said same again,yet you flecc and a few others say they have Now got it right. They had it right last week. The only difference is you and some strange governments have now chosen to believe them and for no objective reason.
There is simply no consistency to your reasoning. There are no extra reasons for EMA decision to hold any more validity than it did last week.

I know. The EMA have basically said, no change, no change, carry on as before. Now the clowns on here are treating that as a new revelation It’s the same recommendation as they issued days ago when certain countries stopped using the vaccine.

Woosh said earlier that Italy had stopped using the AZ vaccine due to supply shortages. They are so short they are sat on huge stockpile. You have to occasionally pinch yourself

Anyway, the US has just announced they will be sending their surplus to Mexico & Canada. Good news it’s not going to waste within the EU.

 

[Danidl]

And..
They have made same decision Danidl.
Vaccine is safe today, was safe yesterday and last week. Exactly as they have all been saying. Nobody has changed, no extra data generated. Nothing. But for some odd reason you are happy with their advice now, but happy it was ignored last week.
I could understand your opinion if EMA had said stop vaccination pending analysis. They didn't. They said its safe last week and with not a jot of more data have said same again,yet you flecc and a few others say they have Now got it right. They had it right last week. The only difference is you and some strange governments have now chosen to believe them and for no objective reason.
There is simply no consistency to your reasoning. There are no extra reasons for EMA decision to hold any more validity than it did last week.

On the contrary .. , "no extra data generated. ". That is very much untrue. . I already told you in an earlier posting today how they would react and the process. You don't change course or give a new heading without new information, but you do take the foot off the accelerator and start coasting as you evaluate the situation. That is exactly what they were doing with the 27 national authorities on 12,13 14 .. . They were requesting any information they might have available regarding AZ and clotting . That is exactly how I would expect both the WHO and the EMA to have responded. That is why they issued what they issued on 11, 13, 16 and now 18 March. The situation on 13 was exactly the same as after the first 737MAX crash. The data being collated on the 16th. Examined and then reviewed yesterday for todays announcement, provides the comfort . You don't want to accept that.. OK. But the EMA did not run around like headless chickens.

 

[Zlatan]

That’s meaningless garbage.

I, ve just watched a video of head of EMA announcing AZ vaccine is safe. I must be drinking too much,strongest deja vu I, ve ever had. They said it was live but I, m convinced I saw same woman say same thing last week. She seemed convincing..on both occasions.
What's going on JHC.. Groundhog day?
I, ve realised, it was on Dave. Perhaps it was a replay.

 

[Danidl]

That’s meaningless garbage.

..again we agree.. what she said was meaningless garbage and PR pulp.

 

[Zlatan]

On the contrary .. , "no extra data generated. ". That is very much untrue. . I already told you in an earlier posting today how they would react and the process. You don't change course or give a new heading without new information, but you do take the foot off the accelerator and start coasting as you evaluate the situation. That is exactly what they were doing with the 27 national authorities on 12,13 14 .. . They were requesting any information they might have available regarding AZ and clotting . That is exactly how I would expect both the WHO and the EMA to have responded. That is why they issued what they issued on 11, 13, 16 and now 18 March. The situation on 13 was exactly the same as after the first 737MAX crash. The data being collated on the 16th. Examined and then reviewed yesterday for todays announcement, provides the comfort . You don't want to accept that.. OK. But the EMA did not run around like headless chickens.

They had decided on Tuesday, actually a month last Tuesday. Are you smoking weed Danidl. You are making even less sense than normal.
They have had zero new data. There was nothing new to examine. They have just relooked at the same data and obviously arrived at same conclusion.
Its not usual to do a sum, get correct answer, then re do same sum and get a different right answer. They already had right answer.
UK had 5 clotting issues out of 11 million jabs. Reread that sentence Danidl. It says same each time you read it.
Reread it in a week. It will not actually have changed. Look I, ll show you.
UK had 5 clotting issues out of 11 million jabs.
Amazing isn't it. It hasn't changed.
Now I don't pretend to be OG, I can't predict the future but I knew for a fact and I, d have had any bet you could name that EMA would find vaccine safe. Now, why is that Danidl. Oh, yes, of course they said it was last week and didn't have any different information to make them change their minds.
UK had 5 clotting issues from 11 million jabs. Oh look it still hasn't changed.
Jesus, what is going on.
Just tell me this Danidl, how could EMA have ever come to a different conclusion?
And,then bearing that in mind why the hell did governments suspend roll out?
And now you all believe EMA.. Amazing isn't it. No new data, no changes of anything a simple repitition of same message and like magic Italy, Germany and France now change their minds and follow advice from EMA.??
They had 17 million pieces of data about AZ last week. They have 17 million pieces of data this week. And amazingly same number of incidents.

 

[Danidl]

They had decided on Tuesday, actually a month last Tuesday. Are you smoking weed Danidl. You are making even less sense than normal.
They have had zero new data. There was nothing new to examine. They have just relooked at the same data and obviously arrived at same conclusion.
Its not usual to do a sum, get correct answer, then re do same sum and get a different right answer. They already had right answer.
UK had 5 clotting issues out of 11 million jabs. Reread that sentence Danidl. It says same each time you read it.
Reread it in a week. It will not actually have changed. Look I, ll show you.
UK had 5 clotting issues out of 11 million jabs.
Amazing isn't it. It hasn't changed.
Now I don't pretend to be OG, I can't predict the future but I knew for a fact and I, d have had any bet you could name that EMA would find vaccine safe. Now, why is that Danidl. Oh, yes, of course they said it was last week and didn't have any different information to make them change their minds.
UK had 5 clotting issues from 11 million jabs. Oh look it still hasn't changed.
Jesus, what is going on.
Just tell me this Danidl, how could EMA have ever come to a different conclusion?
And,then bearing that in mind why the hell did governments suspend roll out?
And now you all believe EMA.. Amazing isn't it. No new data, no changes of anything a simple repitition of same message and like magic Italy, Germany and France now change their minds and follow advice from EMA.??
They had 17 million pieces of data about AZ last week. They have 17 million pieces of data this week. And amazingly same number of incidents.

Except the international community has lost trust with the UK establishment.. and yes you can read that sentence again. Extremely unfortunate, because there are millions of ethical, competent UK people, and some of them are world class scientists. The UK does not get to walk away from Herd Immunity lightly. So the EU and EMA would look much more to the 6 M pieces of data they had no reason to disbelieve. Then they would look at the 11M and talk then to the UK Scientists they trust. Science is not about belief , You trust your colleagues ,you trust the experiments, you trust the goodwill and honestly of them all, and then you VERIFY...and you can still get it wrong.
Again I make the point that after 11th. March, the EMA would have canvassed all the 27 National Authorities seeking collaborating data on clotting events in proximity to either vaccine...It makes it much quicker when you know what you are looking for. At the 16 th March ,they were indicating that they were not getting any substantial evidence of increased incidence of clots., The huge difference now is that the trawling excercise has been done,the evidence has been collected , and it shows that the incidence of clotting in either Pfizer or AZ is not significant and is comparable . Moreover with a data set of 1/2 that of the UK, it shows that the UK data was valid. It also shows no difference in the production QA of EU and UK AZ vaccines.
I don't know your background, but this is how an audit is done. At the time,this started to blow up, I posted the analyses which would be required and these were they.

 

[Woosh]

They have had no more data, no more trials, no more investigation

they continue to investigate but based on the evidence they have so far, they can't be sure if the AZ vaccine caused CSVT or not. So they maintain their current advice and added a warning to watch out for signs of thrombosis.
This is a sensible course of action.
The current number of CSVT is 18, of which 5 are in the UK.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Oh no, vaccination halted again.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Except the international community has lost trust with the UK establishment.. and yes you can read that sentence again. Extremely unfortunate, because there are millions of ethical, competent UK people, and some of them are world class scientists. The UK does not get to walk away from Herd Immunity lightly. So the EU and EMA would look much more to the 6 M pieces of data they had no reason to disbelieve. Then they would look at the 11M and talk then to the UK Scientists they trust. Science is not about belief , You trust your colleagues ,you trust the experiments, you trust the goodwill and honestly of them all, and then you VERIFY...and you can still get it wrong.
Again I make the point that after 11th. March, the EMA would have canvassed all the 27 National Authorities seeking collaborating data on clotting events in proximity to either vaccine...It makes it much quicker when you know what you are looking for. At the 16 th March ,they were indicating that they were not getting any substantial evidence of increased incidence of clots., The huge difference now is that the trawling excercise has been done,the evidence has been collected , and it shows that the incidence of clotting in either Pfizer or AZ is not significant and is comparable . Moreover with a data set of 1/2 that of the UK, it shows that the UK data was valid. It also shows no difference in the production QA of EU and UK AZ vaccines.
I don't know your background, but this is how an audit is done. At the time,this started to blow up, I posted the analyses which would be required and these were they.

It’s quite incredible how a person can use so many words to say nothing.

 

[Zlatan]

It’s quite incredible how a person can use so many words to say nothing.

He, s learning from EU..

Woosh
I believe the first AZ vaccine in a non trial situation was administered on 7th December. Since that date approx 17 million further doses have been given in Europe. Every negative aspect, every side effect was passed on to EMA/JCVI at time it occurred (or shortly after)
The Danish(I think) were first to ignore EMA 8 days ago and suspend AZ roll out.
So, in the past week or so
A) where has your extra data arrived from.
B) exactly which in depth medical study can be done in 5 days?

This has been a complete political exercise.
They had an extra weeks data ( an extra 1% or so?)
And, irrelevant to the non existent extra data they have not changed their stance.
They said it was safe last week and have simply repeated that, and added common sense platitude. "If you develop headache that lasts 4 days or suffer bruising go to your doctor".. Well I never. What top advice. And, I believe that originated from JCVI?
And the by product of it all... Further loss of confidence in AZ throughout Europe, lots of disappointed people and no inroads for a week in fight against pandemic. Its been a farce.
As for Danidl's comment re UK losing respect. Utter rubbish. EU have egg dribbling down their faces, they have proven EMA to be utterly pointless, 13 governments have proven fickle and dithering.
They could scrap EMA and it wouldn't make a jot of difference. Its shown EU and certain countries within it exactly what they are.

Rumour is they have had to find a particularly small needle for Micron. He, s having his jab today. The Quasi effective one as well. The one he suspended against EMA's advice a week ago,but like the turncoat he is, he can also say. "EMA reassessed the same data and came to same conclusion so I believe them now"
Pathetic.
Somebody really should ask him what is difference between believing EMA this week and ignoring them last? With absolutely nothing new or different emerging. Micron, like many on here, has changed his opinion with zero change of information. For posters that's just irrational. For a President it's inexcusable. He had a duty to listen last week.

Moderna’s first batch of Covid vaccine is on the way

The American company Moderna expects to deliver its first batch of Covid vaccines to Britain next month, adding a third supplier to an immunisation campaign fac

www.thetimes.co.uk