Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

This is rubbish and a spiteful attempt at a hatchet job. The numbers are absolutely minuscule. The risk is insignificant when contrasted against the benefit.

"The risk is insignificant when contrasted against the benefit.".. that may be so. I await EXPERT advice on that topic.. Which I expect from the EMA. The EMA gets to consult with 27 National authorities.
You do appreciate that the Paul Erlich Institute is the world class reference , linked with the Charite Hospital in Berlin.? The Jenner Oxford is equally prestigious, but not moreso. There are 19 Nobel prize winners in Medicine from Oxford , including the Jenner and 63 in Medicine linked with the Charitie..and of course the Oxford university is a partner with the Charite.

 

[oldgroaner]

This is rubbish and a spiteful attempt at a hatchet job. The numbers are absolutely minuscule. The risk is insignificant when contrasted against the benefit.

Just for the record what profit is there for them in doing a "Hatchet job" on a vaccine that will save them billions?
They would have to be as daft as a Brexit voter to do that!

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Well done you proved my point!

WTF?

 

[Jesus H Christ]

"The risk is insignificant when contrasted against the benefit.".. that may be so. I await EXPERT advice on that topic.. Which I expect from the EMA. The EMA gets to consult with 27 National authorities. You do appreciate that the Paul Erlich Institute is the world class reference , linked with the Charite Hospital in Berlin. The Jenner Oxford is equally prestigious, but not moreso.

This is 100% political posturing. The EMA’s advice is to get on with it. I guarantee that after a period of delay the advice will be exactly the same, carry on, minuscule risk. You know it too.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Just for the record what profit is there for them in doing a "Hatchet job" on a vaccine that will save them billions?
They would have to be as daft as a Brexit voter to do that!

As I said earlier, every Oxford jab is a lost sale for the profiteers. I thought even you would be capable of that calculation.

 

[Danidl]

I heard on the radio this morning that the USA have tens of millions of AZ vaccine sitting in cold storage. We on the other hand are facing a short fall for about a month of supply of the AZ vaccine (still not clear to me what is the cause of this).

The Americans seem to be in no hurry to use the AZ vaccine and their vaccination programme seems to be going fairly well without the need for it. So why don't we ask if we can have several million doses of this unused supply that is currently sitting in their fridges or freezers, which we can then replace once our supplies get back on track in a month or so.

Would you not think they would return it first to where they got it from?. And that is the EU. Remember the US paid for these upfront and for a factory to produce them However the factory was built in the UK.. There is a hunger for vaccines in the EU also. We have a short hiatus while a serious potential side effect is being investigated.
The USA are not using it because it has not yet been validated by the FDA. Whether this is because AZ has not supplied the documentation,or the FDA is not impressed with the data

 

[Danidl]

How can it be availability when they (Italy) are sat on stocks of Oxford vaccine?

You are starting to come across as a very special and unique kind of idiot when you suggest that a country with a large stock of unused vaccine is being held up by a lack of vaccine.

Careful.. the rest of us refrain from calling you an idiot. What rational people understand is that the vaccine regulatory authorities in multiple EU and non EU countries have put a temporary hold on the innoculation with AZ, while an investigation is being carried out. So by definition the vaccine might be unavailable, while being physically present. Moreover if it is cleared for use again, those stocks will be rapidly depleted. Again a different country, but in Ireland 95% of available stock is used within 7 days of arrival . In the case of the Moderna, the contract with the supplier allows only 50% to be used, and the remainder held until the second jab. So while there are 5000 doses held in storage ,they are not yet available.

 

[oldgroaner]

As I said earlier, every Oxford jab is a lost sale for the profiteers. I thought even you would be capable of that calculation.

Still makes no sense since when are national governments interested in doing that?
We weren't and our lot are crooks!

 

[Woosh]

This is rubbish and a spiteful attempt at a hatchet job. The numbers are absolutely minuscule. The risk is insignificant when contrasted against the benefit.

you are confused a few days or weeks suspension with a conspiracy.
There is nothing I can add. Clearly, your mind is closed to any disadvantage of the AZ.
Let's just leave it at that.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

The EMA has stated the Oxford vaccine is safe and effective for use.

FMTH What a sorry arsed tale this is turning into. This conclusion was inevitable. Now what’s stopping them getting their arses into gear

 

[Jesus H Christ]

New cases are rising. We shouldn’t be unlocking.

 

[flecc]

This is 100% political posturing. The EMA’s advice is to get on with it. I guarantee that after a period of delay the advice will be exactly the same, carry on, minuscule risk. You know it too.

Why this fanatical attacking, it's irrational because:

1) We are not in the EU.

2) It's therefore none of your business.

3) Once cleared the EU countries will be using their stocks and need much more.

4) Italian prime minister Mario Draghi has said he aims to use the Oxford jab to speed up vaccinations, so obviously has nothing against it.

5) He's sacked the previous governments two persons in charge of the program, replaced them and appointed someone to lead a much increased program.

6) He's threatened legal action against AZ if they continue to fail to deliver on their supply promises, hardly the action of someone not wamting to use the AZ.

Just be patient.

P.S. That wasn't long was it? Italy is resuming the AZ vaccinations tomorrow. With their increased program they'll quickly run out of the vaccine.
.

 

[Danidl]

The EMA has stated the Oxford vaccine is safe and effective for use.

FMTH What a sorry arsed tale this is turning into. This conclusion was inevitable. Now what’s stopping them getting their arses into gear

First it is excellent news and the 77K doses of AZ currently in stock in Ireland will be used ASAP. Secondly that is not EXACTLY what the EMA has said..it is that the benefits outweigh the risks, and that they will be continuing researching this potential side effect. A TCD Prof, Luke O Neill who anticipated this result, expects that there will be a recommendation for slow release aspirin for some maybe all users. Indeed yesterday's Irish Times had a cartoon, suggesting that the AZ should be restricted to use over 60s on the grounds we were all on blood thinners.

 

[Zlatan]

"The risk is insignificant when contrasted against the benefit.".. that may be so. I await EXPERT advice on that topic.. Which I expect from the EMA. The EMA gets to consult with 27 National authorities.
You do appreciate that the Paul Erlich Institute is the world class reference , linked with the Charite Hospital in Berlin.? The Jenner Oxford is equally prestigious, but not moreso. There are 19 Nobel prize winners in Medicine from Oxford , including the Jenner and 63 in Medicine linked with the Charitie..and of course the Oxford university is a partner with the Charite.

We, ve had expert advice for nearly 2 weeks. Who, EMA, JCVI and Mhra have said all along keep vaccinating.
I, m not sure why when EMA reannounce vaccine is safe they are suddenly listened to. What is different to yesterday? They have looked again at same data and come to same conclusion. What's new?
Today you chose to believe them but yesterday you didn't? Seriously why change.. Just carry on ignoring them, seems you, flecc, OG and Woosh are experts in this field, WTF do EMA, Who, JCVI and Mhra know. They are government lackeys spouting propoganda.
Why is their propoganda any more believable now.. Drugs I think.
I don't understand your stance at all. Either EMA is credible or it isn't. You can't change your view of their ability, sincerity just to suit your argument, and likewise neither can the Governments who chose to ignore their advice 2 days ago?? But somehow when they announce "carry on vaccinating*, folk on here, in governments who have stopped vaccinating will quite sincerely believe they are now following science and advice. But the damage has been done.
Just examine the figures. A weeks not vaccinating does the same damage as about 3 years vaccinating. (risk is about a thousand greater from Covid than blood clot from vaccine)???
But a week doesn't matter... In which case neither does 3 years plus of vaccinating.??? (it's actually way more than 3 years but point is valid)

 

[flecc]

We, ve had expert advice for nearly 2 weeks. Who, EMA, JCVI and Mhra have said all along keep vaccinating.
I, m not sure why when EMA reannounce vaccine is safe they are suddenly listened to. What is different to yesterday? They have looked again at same data and come to same conclusion. What's new?
Today you chose to believe them but yesterday you didn't? Seriously why change.. Just carry on ignoring them, seems you, flecc, OG and Woosh are experts in this field, WTF do EMA, Who, JCVI and Mhra know. They are government lackeys spouting propoganda.
Why is their propoganda any more believable now.. Drugs I think.

Don't be dishonest, the EMA statement made very clear the additional work that's been done. In addition they've confirmed that the brain embolism factor will need to be watched closely and said warnings about it need to be added to the risks listing.
.

 

[Zlatan]

So flecc isn't going to listen to EMA next week either??

 

[Zlatan]

Don't be dishonest, the EMA statement made very clear the additional work that's been done. In addition they've confirmed that the brain embolism factor will need to be watched closely and said warnings about it need to be added to the risks listing.
.

But that doesn't change the statistics at all.
I accepted there might be a link but it still doesn't affect numbers. The risk of blood clot (even if there is a link) is 0.007 per 100,000 jabs. (contraceptive pill, taken daily BTW, is 0.6 per 100,000)
EMA said all that last week. Their advice has not changed but for some inexplicable reason you are accepting the advice now? What has changed? Nothing. A possible and as yet unproven link via an unproven mechanism.???
And, you ignored them yesterday yet today accept their "mechanism".??? Its you not been consistent. I, ve listened to them all the time. Last week, you knew better, this week they do. Sense less.
And, of course they say a close eye must be kept on data. You don't say. I thought they, d just chuck data away now, like JCVI and the lackeys do. Barmy.
Not one of you has explained why now EMA are making an announcement saying "vaccine is safe" yet last week when they said exactly same.... They were wrong.???
They have not changed a single word of their advice, it is quite simple, it has been
"keep vaccinating" all the time.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

First it is excellent news and the 77K doses of AZ currently in stock in Ireland will be used ASAP. Secondly that is not EXACTLY what the EMA has said..it is that the benefits outweigh the risks, and that they will be continuing researching this potential side effect. A TCD Prof, Luke O Neill who anticipated this result, expects that there will be a recommendation for slow release aspirin for some maybe all users. Indeed yesterday's Irish Times had a cartoon, suggesting that the AZ should be restricted to use over 60s on the grounds we were all on blood thinners.

You’re such a clown.

That’s exactly what has been said. I’ve just heard Emer Cooke the executive Director of the EMA use the exact words, “this is a safe and effective vaccine “ at a press conference on the TV. She said the exact words as I typed this. I saw them coming from her mouth

You are a dangerous idiot. You get everything wrong and there is a slight danger someone may actually take you seriously and give you a degree of credibility.

Next comes the task of undoing all of the unnecessary harm done to the Oxford vaccine’s reputation. There is going to be a huge amount of hesitancy now, plus rising infection rates.

 

[Zlatan]

But that doesn't change the statistics at all.
I accepted there might be a link but it still doesn't affect numbers. The risk of blood clot (even if there is a link) is 0.007 per 100,000 jabs. (contraceptive pill, taken daily BTW, is 0.6 per 100,000)
EMA said all that last week. Their advice has not changed but for some inexplicable reason you are accepting the advice now? What has changed? Nothing. A possible and as yet unproven link via an unproven mechanism.???
And, you ignored them yesterday yet today accept their "mechanism".??? Its you not been consistent. I, ve listened to them all the time. Last week, you knew better, this week they do. Sense less.
And, of course they say a close eye must be kept on data. You don't say. I thought they, d just chuck data away now, like JCVI and the lackeys do. Barmy.
Not one of you has explained why now EMA are making an announcement saying "vaccine is safe" yet last week when they said exactly same.... They were wrong.???
They have not changed a single word of their advice, it is quite simple, it has been
"keep vaccinating" all the time.

And Flecc still hasn't clarified if he,s now accepting EMA advice or not?
Are you flecc? EMA are now right but were wrong?
Or are you going down the consistent path. They were wrong last week and are still wrong?
They have had 2 more days data... Oooh, that would help clarify it.
Can't believe you lot are so gullable. This has been a political exercise. EMA have always said "keep vaccinating". Government ministers decided to not do so against all available evidence, data and advice. Yet now, after 2 days extra investigation and a weeks extra data... Its miraculously safe. Give up Danidl. It's been safe all the time.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

6) He's threatened legal action against AZ if they continue to fail to deliver on their supply promises, hardly the action of someone not wamting to use the AZ.

Good luck with that. It’s going nowhere