Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Boris Johnson has shifted the Tories left on the economy. Labour should watch out | Larry Elliott

Labour can’t assume it will take power once voters realise the prime minister is a conman. What if he means what he says? asks the Guardian’s economics editor Larry Elliott

www.theguardian.com

Has OG been asleep for last year. Johnson and this Govt have been utilising historically Labour policies for at least a year. This Guardian article is a year old, and Tories have introduced even more since then. Tory were all for little interference, small government, low taxes... Sort of opposite to Johnson. Keep up OG.
Flecc sees it as steeling Corbyn policies..???

 

[oldgroaner]

Celebrity Status is hard !

Notoriety pays better and is lots more fun (I'm told)

 

[oldgroaner]

It's about 4 hours now since I had the jab, no side effects at all so far. My sister said she was fine until about 10 hours or so after her injection so I have a few hours to go yet.

I was thinking while having the injection that although we have all been very unlucky to experience this pandemic during our life times, we are at the same time lucky that this did not happen say 15 or 20 years ago. At that time there is no way we would have produced effective vaccines and get them into peoples arms in such a short period of time.

When we look at it like that it really is a tremendous achievement, I am not talking about just the UK here, I am talking about all the collaboration that has taken place all over the world to produce these vaccines.

And think on this point. we still wouldn't have the vaccines if the Chinese hadn't cracked it's genetic code

 

[Jesus H Christ]

What you think about its location of development,is irrelevant,. The fact is it is NOT AVAILABLE is.
The UK jumped the gun on both these major vaccines. They over rode the safeguards for the Pfizer, and indemnified the manufacturers in case of malfunction. They were lucky and the Pfizer works as expected. But then they mucked about with its dosage regime ..and the jury is out in that. They overrode the safeguards on the AZ , particularly the usage with over 60 cohorts, ... fortunately they were lucky with that.
The EU were not late to the party... That is again propaganda. The Pfizer was paid for with EU money. The AZ plant in Belgium was funded by EU money. The AZ plant in UK was funded by US Warpspeed money ...in part. The Jenner Oxford Laboratory is the only part of the equation which was UK taxpayer funded. ..and even that has caveats ,as the Jenner would have traditionally been EU supported...and it's Director is an EU national.
A policy decision was made by the EU that it would share and share alike. Otherwise the few very rich countries like Germany and Belgium would snaffle everything. This has put some German noses out of joint, presumably because they believed that UVDL would not have taken her oath seriously.

The U.K. medical experts were not lucky, they are world class and made outstanding decisions. We are now very well placed.

The EU dislike the AZ vaccine because it’s perceived as British. That is the reason they were fatally late placing their order and the disinformation they have been spreading has added to their troubles.

I’m sitting here vaccinated , only a few weeks from the second dose. My 54 year old wife will be vaccination on Thursday. My 70 year old friend in the EU has no vaccination date. Don’t try and tell me that the EU has got this right and the U.K. wrong. You’ll just make a clown out of yourself.

 

[oldgroaner]

Boris Johnson has shifted the Tories left on the economy. Labour should watch out | Larry Elliott

Labour can’t assume it will take power once voters realise the prime minister is a conman. What if he means what he says? asks the Guardian’s economics editor Larry Elliott

www.theguardian.com

Has OG been asleep for last year. Johnson and this Govt have been utilising historically Labour policies for at least a year. This Guardian article is a year old, and Tories have introduced even more since then. Tory were all for little interference, small government, low taxes... Sort of opposite to Johnson. Keep up OG.

Actually ~I have been keeping up and wonder what makes you think he did any of this willingly?
He simply had no other choice!
Remember the man is not pragmatic, nor has any set policy, if someone tells him it will improve his image to do something even if it proves disastrous he'll do it.
Because he feels invulnerable.

 

[flecc]

And stay out of power...??

Yes, a price of our defective system that for many decades has relied on the party in power messing up to get change, rather than any party actually appealing to voters.

Either Labour will get in again when the public finally get sick enough of the Tories and SNP, just as it's happened several times before in the last 120 years.

Or the loss of a true working class in England will mean there is no longer any place for a true socialist Labour government. In that case we will need one or more alternative parties to rise up, not existing Labour politicians pretending to be something else.
.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

And think on this point. we still wouldn't have the vaccines if the Chinese hadn't cracked it's genetic code

And we wouldn’t have had the virus if the filthy little bastards hadn’t decided to start eating bat poo.

The U.K. would have cracked the code, yet again the U.K. were the main players in genetic code research.

 

[oldgroaner]

And here is a little something that inspires confidence (not)
Covid test kit supplier joked to Hancock on WhatsApp he had 'never heard of him'
Bourne’s company, Hinpack, which he runs from his father-in-law’s industrial potato farm in Cambridgeshire, has been beset by problems. It recently voluntarily recalled at least 8m test tubes that had been delivered to warehouses for the NHS over quality issues.

Bourne initially offered his company’s services to the health secretary at the start of the pandemic in a personal message sent to Hancock’s WhatsApp on 30 March. Those messages have not been publicly revealed, but Bourne said Hancock referred him to the DHSC website.

At that time, Hinpack made plastic cups and takeaway boxes for the catering industry. The company’s 2019 accounts state Hinpack was at that time technically insolvent. His lawyers said the Companies House filings at that time reflected the fact Hinpack was a startup and its debts were loans from Bourne himself, “a man of private resources”.

Meanwhile, substantial numbers of Bourne's test tubes are alleged to have been burned in recent months at various locations including in his own garden. The Guardian has seen evidence of one such fire, with test tubes scattered around the base of a fire and plumes of black smoke.

 

[oldgroaner]

And we wouldn’t have had the virus if the filthy little bastards hadn’t decided to start eating bat poo.

The U.K. would have cracked the code, yet again the U.K. were the main players in genetic code research.

First sentence that wasn't proved
Second sentence we didn't
How come if we were the main players in genetic code research.?
Apparently we were the second best

 

[Danidl]

Notoriety pays better and is lots more fun (I'm told)

..you need to refer to JHC on that one.

 

[oldgroaner]

..you need to refer to JHC on that one.

Indeed!

 

[oldgroaner]

They were made in Countries within the EU to full fill orders placed by UK. Now they have decided it works, decided they will authorise vaccine, now decided its safe you think they should take precedent over UK because they are made in EU? We, ve been here before Danidl. You ignored the perspective given by a contract lawyer (I linked to it, which was not political or biased.
You actually think fact that UK placed orders 3 months before EU, Authorised the vaccine much earlier and have not thrown scorn at the vaccine yet you still insist EU now have the right of those vaccines destined for UK?
Exactly which law are you referring to on this odd assessment? It's pure bias and prejudice.
You will not accept the fact EU made a mess of all aspects of vaccine roll out. From initial orders, to bad mouthing the product and authorising very late.

"It's pure bias and prejudice. " obviously an expert opinion!

 

[Danidl]

The U.K. medical experts were not lucky, they are world class and made outstanding decisions. We are now very well placed.

The EU dislike the AZ vaccine because it’s perceived as British. That is the reason they were fatally late placing their order and the disinformation they have been spreading has added to their troubles.

I’m sitting here vaccinated , only a few weeks from the second dose. My 54 year old wife will be vaccination on Thursday. My 70 year old friend in the EU has no vaccination date. Don’t try and tell me that the EU has got this right and the U.K. wrong. You’ll just make a clown out of yourself.

The EU cannot get the AZ vaccine.. 5M doses in total over 450M people . We have used every drop we get.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

First sentence that wasn't proved
Second sentence we didn't
How come if we were the main players in genetic code research.?
Apparently we were the second best

Francis Crick, Sydney Brenner, Leslie Barnett, and Richard Watts-Tobin. World leaders.

 

[oldgroaner]

Francis Crick, Sydney Brenner, Leslie Barnett, and Richard Watts-Tobin. World leaders.

Pity they aren't available now and maybe the Chinese wouldn't have cracked the code first.
It's no good trying to live on past glories

 

[Jesus H Christ]

The EU cannot get the AZ vaccine.. 5M doses in total over 450M people . We have used every drop we get.

Now you have. The EU should never have allowed that oily French pigmy to run around talking spiteful garbage about the AZ vaccine.

The EU has an almost identical contract to the U.K. for AZ vaccine. The problem is rooted in the EU’s lateness ordering, and that is compounded by idiots like the snide pigmy.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Pity they aren't available now and maybe the Chinese wouldn't have cracked the code first.
It's no good trying to live on past glories

Their legacy lives on at our fine world class institutions in Cambridge and Oxford.

 

[Zlatan]

Yes, a price of our defective system that for many decades has relied on the party in power messing up to get change, rather than any party actually appealing to voters.

Either Labour will get in again when the public finally get sick enough of the Tories and SNP, just as it's happened several times before in the last 120 years.

Or the loss of a true working class in England will mean there is no longer any place for a true socialist Labour government. In that case we will need one or more alternative parties to rise up, not existing Labour politicians pretending to be something else.
.

We can blame system, and agreed it has its faults, but those faulty things within it apply to all parties.
Perhaps the ability to utilise the system to your own parties' success is both a necessary evil and a quality required to run the country.
You plainly don't want Labour to change. I do, I see a modern socially minded party with electorate's well being central to their existence as a necessity and not something to call on when Tories cock up completely.
You seem content to let Labour amble along and simply exist to inherit power rather than win it. I don't think that's good enough. We all deserve representation. Labour voters have very little at moment. Voting people into opposition is no good for anybody.
UK society deserves better than what's on offer at moment. Blaming electorate is like blaming crowd for a poor performance from a football team. Without our electorate there would be no country.

 

[Zlatan]

The EU cannot get the AZ vaccine.. 5M doses in total over 450M people . We have used every drop we get.

Italy has largest EU AstraZeneca stock but lowest vaccination rate

Italian prime minister Mario Draghi aims to use the Oxford jab to speed up vaccinations as his country gears to face a third wave

www.telegraph.co.uk

Not quite Danidl.


Besides, even if stocks are the problem who else is to blame except EU???

Citizens blame EU and national governments for slow coronavirus vaccine rollout: Poll

More than half of Germans polled said the EU has handled the vaccine rollout badly.

www.politico.eu

???

 

[flecc]

The U.K. medical experts were not lucky

They were lucky that their gamble has paid off, so far that is. But no-one, including you, should be counting chickens yet, there's a long way to go.

Very long ago I had access to the documents on a defence case about a drug that had caused appalling damage long after it was first used. The drug was a valuable sedative that had benefits for a variety of conditions, and despite its now known danger it is still in use as being invaluable in treating many difficult conditions, including treating the skin lesions caused by leprosy.

It had sailed through all its drug trials and was welcomed for its widespread usefulness, no-one suspecting for a moment that it could possibly have any dangerous effects.

Until.

That drug was thalidomide, causing the birth of countless thousands of terribly deformed babies, of whom some 3000 are still alive today.

The risk that a Covid vaccine could cause anything remotely like it is miniscule, but nothing that contacts us is totally safe until proved so over decades. That's a lesson we've learnt the hard way many times, such as in OG's asbestosis.
.