Well obviously someone upstairs or in the cellar is not yet interested in you.. perhaps they also are like the NHS and just forgot about you. Perhaps like Woody Allen , who does not want to achieve immortality by doing some heroic deed, you also will achieve it by just not dying
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
So if voters are predominantly conservatives with a small C why can't Labour party reflect that. What is point of having all these high ideals but for a shrinking minority?
No party would get elected on that standing.
The point is in a democracy to have policies, idealogy and people that voters want. Labour have none of those. Tories seem to be able to do it and with apparently unpopular characters.
By your argument Labour may as well disband and make room for a party that might appeal to electorate.
Its quite simple Flecc, Labour must change or never get in no10. In a roundabout way that's exactly what you are saying, except the change part. They won't get in. Agreed.
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JHC wrote " My friend in France hasn’t. Appalling."... Perhaps appalling is the term to use when the majority of vaccines used to date in the UK are EU manufactured. There have been 24M doses jabbed in the UK to date . 11M are UK manufactured the rest from the EU , including 8M in February alone. Would you be crowing so loudly if the EU was as parsimonious and there were by now 11 M single vaccinations in the UK?.
The EU were late to the party. The EU were very late ordering. The EU were late approving it. The EU sowed the seeds of vaccine hesitation regarding the AZ vaccine. The EU have not done very well.
The Oxford vaccine was developed in the U.K. too and I think that’s the EU’s biggest issue with it.
The point is that they have Socialist left wing principles. Their Tory rivals have no principles as the theft of Labours policies shows.
We've had five genuine Labour governments since 1900, excluding the Blair pseudo tory ones. In that time there has been fifteen Tory ones, illustrating England's inherent small "c" conservatism.
You see that as pointless, but I don't since it's important that we have an honourable left wing choice for those people who have both principles and scruples. Alternative Tory parties are not a solution as Blair showed.
But of course the real problem is not one of either of these dominant parties, it's simply our grossly distorting first past the post voting system. A simple switch to proportional representation would allow us to have a greater range of party choices for each of us to accurately reflect what governance we personally want. That in turn would allow the coalitions incorporating our wishes into compromises.
Until then and as before, Labour will only return to power very occasionally when the Tories finally hurt the electorate enough each time, making their continuing patient presence essential.
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They were made in Countries within the EU to full fill orders placed by UK. Now they have decided it works, decided they will authorise vaccine, now decided its safe you think they should take precedent over UK because they are made in EU? We, ve been here before Danidl. You ignored the perspective given by a contract lawyer (I linked to it, which was not political or biased.
You actually think fact that UK placed orders 3 months before EU, Authorised the vaccine much earlier and have not thrown scorn at the vaccine yet you still insist EU now have the right of those vaccines destined for UK?
Exactly which law are you referring to on this odd assessment? It's pure bias and prejudice.
You will not accept the fact EU made a mess of all aspects of vaccine roll out. From initial orders, to bad mouthing the product and authorising very late.
Fair points flecc. I suspect your assessment of Labour principles versus Tory doesn't stand examination. Liverpool mayor, Len McCluskey awarding contracts. They all view it as a great big gravy train. But yes, proportional representation may help but it has inherent problems. (tends to produce weaker governments)
I can't see what the issue is regarding Labour actually having popular policies.
I don't think Labour can claim moral high ground anymore, but???
What you think about its location of development,is irrelevant,. The fact is it is NOT AVAILABLE is.The EU were late to the party. The EU were very late ordering. The EU were late approving it. The EU sowed the seeds of vaccine hesitation regarding the AZ vaccine. The EU have not done very well.
The Oxford vaccine was developed in the U.K. too and I think that’s the EU’s biggest issue with it.
The UK jumped the gun on both these major vaccines. They over rode the safeguards for the Pfizer, and indemnified the manufacturers in case of malfunction. They were lucky and the Pfizer works as expected. But then they mucked about with its dosage regime ..and the jury is out in that. They overrode the safeguards on the AZ , particularly the usage with over 60 cohorts, ... fortunately they were lucky with that.
The EU were not late to the party... That is again propaganda. The Pfizer was paid for with EU money. The AZ plant in Belgium was funded by EU money. The AZ plant in UK was funded by US Warpspeed money ...in part. The Jenner Oxford Laboratory is the only part of the equation which was UK taxpayer funded. ..and even that has caveats ,as the Jenner would have traditionally been EU supported...and it's Director is an EU national.
A policy decision was made by the EU that it would share and share alike. Otherwise the few very rich countries like Germany and Belgium would snaffle everything. This has put some German noses out of joint, presumably because they believed that UVDL would not have taken her oath seriously.
As you well know, I'm speaking of political principles, not morality. Anyway what has McClusky got to do with what I posted, he isn't an MP or standing as one?
The popular policies with the small "c" majority are not socialist and as said, there's no point in duplicating the Tory party. That just leaves the middle of the road LibDems, but the public don't want them either. So Labour might just as well stay as they are, giving a three way choice to the voters until their turn eventually comes round again.
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And the most important part of the rese was done where?The EU were late to the party. The EU were very late ordering. The EU were late approving it. The EU sowed the seeds of vaccine hesitation regarding the AZ vaccine. The EU have not done very well.
The Oxford vaccine was developed in the U.K. too and I think that’s the EU’s biggest issue with it.
"Once researchers in China had mapped the genetic sequence of the coronavirus, we were able to quickly produce our COVID-19 vaccine by combining the ChAdOx1 vector with the genetic sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. "
Perhaps you could wave the Chinese Flag as well as the Union Jack?
This was an international effort
And at some point even a government that seems to literally get away with murder with find and add the final straw to the Camel's Back
Getting rather repetitive now Danidl. Irrespective of which money or from where any company exists on its ability to supply orders. EU did not place orders, yes UK did jump the gun, yes perhaps they were lucky or perhaps had more insight. You can't change history to suit your argument. UK Govt paid millions ordering a possible failure. They took the risk (you acknowledge that) and having taken that risk (and with many countries/companies) you want them to not take advantage of having done so. EU didn't take that risk, they sat back and let UK both order an unknown drug and authorise a potentially dangerous one. The EU did not, yet you now think they should somehow benefit from UK having taken way bigger risk than they did. Early bird and all that Danidl.
Left wing Tory Cabinet oh that's a good one, they are right wing compared to the Unione Siciliano
Solidarity Forever? Len McCluskey’s War on Labour Electability
The Unite union’s decision to cut funding to the party led by Keir Starmer has come at a time when it is finally looking capable of winning power again, argues Sam Bright
bylinetimes.com
And to not recognise the roll McCluskey plays in Labour Party really is burying your head in the sand. He is probably the most important person in the entire movement,and its part of the problem. He hates Starmer and all the Blairites and Momentum aren't keen on McCluskey. It's all a mess. Way more of a mess than Tories.
When the government are desperate after inflicting enormous casualties on their own people, and ignoring the evidence of project Cygnus, Mathews takes emergency action after a fiction movie frightens him!
His terror is so great he waives the Company's liability in order the jump the queue over everyone else.
And having got the vaccines they ignore the manufacturers explicit instructions and 4 weeks becomes twelve, because they think they can get away with that too,and the public will approve of the clowns
It's amazing that instead of tarring and feathering them some people find reasons to ignore that and heap praise on them because for once an expensive gamble came off.
Now lets see them raise the 130,000 dead eh?
Do that and I will give them fulsome praise.
And since they are not in powerSolidarity Forever? Len McCluskey’s War on Labour Electability
The Unite union’s decision to cut funding to the party led by Keir Starmer has come at a time when it is finally looking capable of winning power again, argues Sam Bright
And to not recognise the roll McCluskey plays in Labour Party really is burying your head in the sand. He is probably the most important person in the entire movement,and its part of the problem. He hates Starmer and all the Blairites and Momentum aren't keen on McCluskey. It's all a mess. Way more of a mess than Tories.
About as interesting as the Royal Family squabble
It's about 4 hours now since I had the jab, no side effects at all so far. My sister said she was fine until about 10 hours or so after her injection so I have a few hours to go yet.
I was thinking while having the injection that although we have all been very unlucky to experience this pandemic during our life times, we are at the same time lucky that this did not happen say 15 or 20 years ago. At that time there is no way we would have produced effective vaccines and get them into peoples arms in such a short period of time.
When we look at it like that it really is a tremendous achievement, I am not talking about just the UK here, I am talking about all the collaboration that has taken place all over the world to produce these vaccines.