Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Bull

Could be... Its why we need a public enquiry when it's all over. Examining not just the Govt, PSE, NHS but also media.
There has been so much bull about.
Might have been better had they had it as a goal. Guaranteed they couldn't have achieved anything like enough infections to get there.
It is what has made vaccination programme so good. Everything else was so bad.

 

[flecc]

Your link actually shows you commented first. View attachment 40869ie saying folk mentioned are subject to political influence???
So such as you and whoever are somehow in a better position than CW, JVT, PV etc to give independent assessment. Absolute rubbish but your link proves you brought them into it.
There are two people I, ve heard with any criticisms of UK roll out. You being one of those.
I suspect you want to put vaccine efforts down because they have shown your beloved EU up, whose efforts you plainly don't want to discuss because if ours are chaotic what are theirs.
Criticising our efforts when we have vaccinated 17 million folk is crazy. We should be grateful and thankful we aren't in Brazil or Belgium.
Sour grapes I think flecc. Showing the EU up?

You just can't stop bringing the EU into everything. It's not my beloved EU, it's the principle I like, not the implementation. I'm really not interested in how they are getting on or not with vaccination since I don't live there and it's nothing to do with me. Even less now we've left.

The UK roll out of vaccines has two very good things, speed and quantity, but in consequence some very bad things regarding distribution, equity and future problems.

Those are facts and I'm not one to delude myself by waving a union flag.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

When did I say anything had not got anything to do with my voting to leave?? (I, ve not discussed Brexit on here or elsewhere for months?)
Amazing how you know more about me than I do. And exactly what am I denying??
As usual your attitude is aggressive and confrontational. Perhaps it's you feeling guilty about something.
Voters like me, what about pillocks like you?

You take factual disagreement too personally. No doubt that leave vote, or thinking we lead the world (in anything other than covid deaths) for giving 17 million single jabs comes from the same place. Try to put the ego (and unionist flag) down for a seccy

 

[Zlatan]

You take factual disagreement too personally. No doubt that leave vote, or thinking we lead the world (in anything other than covid deaths) for giving 17 million single jabs comes from the same place. Try to put the ego (and unionist flag) down for a seccy

Agreed, I do.
I, ll take the advice.
Whilst doing so can I suggest some posters try to see the good things we have achieved instead of knocking everything.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Agreed, I do.
I, ll take the advice.

We all do to be fair, its striking a balance I guess. I'm biased but feel that were in the midst of a massive unpreparedexperiment. With boris as our lab scientist. Which makes me feel completely safe.

 

[Zlatan]

Agreed, I do.
I, ll take the advice.

We all do to be fair, its striking a balance I guess. I'm biased but feel that were in the midst of a massive unpreparedexperiment. With boris as our lab scientist. Which makes me feel completely safe.

Agreed.

 

[oyster]

Its why we need a public enquiry when it's all over.

No - that could delay the start for years.

I suggest a start be made with the creation of a Royal Commission (or whatever is the appropriate form) and ensure it has access to and collects relevant information now.

 

[flecc]

Whilst doing so can I suggest some posters try to see the good things we have achieved instead of knocking everything.

I did, in this post.

But you take the accompanying justified mention of the downsides too seriously, thinking I should stay silent on them. I can't do that flag waving propaganda, I just prefer to give a balanced view of all facets, good and bad.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Agreed, I do.
I, ll take the advice.
Whilst doing so can I suggest some posters try to see the good things we have achieved instead of knocking everything.

No one is more inclined to be trying than me

 

[oldgroaner]

We all do to be fair, its striking a balance I guess. I'm biased but feel that were in the midst of a massive unpreparedexperiment. With boris as our lab scientist. Which makes me feel completely safe.

I'm sure that the average third class passenger on the Titanic had the same justifiable warm thoughts for the Captain

 

[oldgroaner]

I did, in this post.

But you take the accompanying justified mention of the downsides too seriously, thinking I should stay silent on them. I can't do that flag waving propaganda, I just prefer to give a balanced view of all facets, good and bad.
.

You forget to mention the indifferent facets too!

 

[oldgroaner]

Talk about non sequiters, you really are a champion. What Valance said on herd immunity has no relationship to the data mechanisms of Covid death exaggeration. Or vaccine rollout.

The government has achieved a remarkably rapid and utterly chaotic rollout of vaccines.

Only time will tell whether that was wise or foolish in comparison to what others do.
.

Or just plain dumb luck based on desperation.
When you have made as many blunders as the government have, the law of odd predicts eventually something is likely to go well.
Or at least not as badly as your present performance suggests.
Particularly true when it is done by actually professional people not bribed to perform as figureheads as the dubious Zoltar look alike in charge of the vaccination program, while we pay for the well being of his race horses.

 

[oldgroaner]

A Warning from the manufacturer's CEO
Pfizer CEO Cautions Against Delaying Second Covid-19 Vaccine Shot

"
COLLINS: Do y’all plan to discuss the study showing that the one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is effective and therefore there’s a consideration about delaying a second dose?

BOURLA: No, there is no study that shows that you can delay. We haven’t studied, unfortunately, the delay. We only have data up to 21 days when we administer the second. We do not know what will happen if we do not administer the second, how long this duration of immunity will last.

COLLINS: But are you looking at that, this idea of only doing one dose and then delaying the second dose so that you can vaccinate more people?

BOURLA: We don’t think it will work with one right now.

COLLINS: You don’t think it will work.

BOURLA: No. But we are looking at it."


As I said we are not following the science, gambling and chancing are the name of the game here, and you have to be more than generous to look at the motive behind doing this.
As in the old military maxim of the General's rousing speech.

There will inevitably be casualties, but we are prepared for you to take them for us to rule the world

 

[oldgroaner]

I wonder why there is a need for this continued hostility?
We have left the EU with what was sold to us as an "Oven ready deal"
In the Telegraph

 

[oyster]

I wonder why there is a need for this continued hostility?
We have left the EU with what was sold to us as an "Oven ready deal"
In the Telegraph

First, anything that reduces the vast quantities of plastic used for water bottles would (at least in the sense of reducing plastic waste) be a positive.

Second, the government has made murmurs that it is considering mandating fluoride being added to water supplies. If so, a number of people will refuse to consume tap water. Although UK water processors could make up some shortfall, I suspect not enough in volume or speed.

Third, what a mess.

 

[Nev]

Spiegelhalter here on the 12 week gap between jabs.
Is 12 weeks between Covid jabs too long? | Vaccines and immunisation | The Guardian

 

[oyster]

Spiegelhalter here on the 12 week gap between jabs.
Is 12 weeks between Covid jabs too long? | Vaccines and immunisation | The Guardian

Can they increase the gap sufficiently that, at least for AZ, the coming "update" could widely be used as the second dose?

That could, likely would, result in AZ recipients getting one original dose plus one update dose. Rather than two original doses plus one update dose. Potentially a big saving in delivery costs (vaccine, staff, etc.)

Is this now the real aim?

 

[oyster]

Partner got a phone call on Friday - vaccine appointment will be at 16:44 on a day this week. No choice. No discussion. Apparently two minutely intervals throughout the day.

This is not meant to complain - I don't know what would have happened if she had in any way indicated she could not attend, and the call was perfectly friendly. But the approach understandably seemed to emphasise efficiency.

She will not be drinking any more alcohol for a while after a small glass of wine today - finishing off yesterday's shared bottle. Though no such advice given. Paracetamol, antihistamine, loo rolls already in place to cover the most commonly reported side effects.

Yellow Card reports analysis here:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines adverse reactions

A report covering adverse reactions to approved COVID-19 vaccines

www.gov.uk

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Partner got a phone call on Friday - vaccine appointment will be at 16:44 on a day this week. No choice. No discussion. Apparently two minutely intervals throughout the day.

This is not meant to complain - I don't know what would have happened if she had in any way indicated she could not attend, and the call was perfectly friendly. But the approach understandably seemed to emphasise efficiency.

She will not be drinking any more alcohol for a while after a small glass of wine today - finishing off yesterday's shared bottle. Though no such advice given. Paracetamol, antihistamine, loo rolls already in place to cover the most commonly reported side effects.

Yellow Card reports analysis here:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines adverse reactions

A report covering adverse reactions to approved COVID-19 vaccines

www.gov.uk

It’s not practical to cater for individual’s particular circumstances. Getting vaccinated has to be people’s number one priority. Everything else comes second on vaccine day.

 

[flecc]

Spiegelhalter here on the 12 week gap between jabs.
Is 12 weeks between Covid jabs too long? | Vaccines and immunisation | The Guardian

The trouble with all this pro government propaganda on how wonderful the first dose is with mentions of up to 92% efficient is that many will refuse or not turn up for the second dose. Especially all those who had side effects from the first one.

The result of that inadequate cover could be a national resurgence of the infection later.

I do sometimes wonder if this government and their "experts" ever really think through what they do.
.