Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

[/QUOTE]
it's not so much what they know more than us, it's more a case of what they choose to tell (and not to tell) the public.
At least we are not partisan on covid.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
They should have been more transparent with decision about delay. We thought we were trading 30% or so by delaying jab. In reality its under 10%.(figures from Israel suggest only 2%).Apparently JVCI removed data between days 1 and 14. Then reexamined trial data. Showed 90 plus % on week 4.(Pfizer figures showed 52%)???

 

[Danidl]

Because it takes time to evaluate a change. The concept of storing the vaccine at a higher temperature has probably been under consideration since long before it was approved for use.

That would be true, but as I understood it, the Moderna vaccine used a different more temperature stable substrate molecule than the Pfizer ..at least that was what was being said about 3 months ago. The Oxford one uses a long established process allowing for near room temperature distribution.

 

[flecc]

The basis of the problem is the reduction of flush volumes progressively from high level 11 and 13 litre cisterns down now to 3.5 litre close coupled suites, which struggle to clear the bowl, and lead to very low rates of flow in the sewers.
The only available answer at this time is for the authorities to specify macerators on the outgo of the pans to liquidise the waste, and to introduce automatic jetting in areas of the sewers known to have a tendency to block.
When Canary Wharf was under construction I visited there regularly as the installation on all floors was shall we say problematical and far too restricted at the basement and sewer levels.
This was pointed out and noted..
There is of course a noise problem with the present macerator designs, but I had seen some more modern and quieter designs on the board.

Indeed, today's cisterns with their inadequate flushing are a menace, all those in our flats who have changed to modern toilet suites suffer from them.

I've determinedly clung on to my 53 year old original and as you know replaced it's siphon with a well set up flap valve thus increasing the volume of water still further and it can move mountains, jetting out the soil pipe at the same time.

Of course the best cisterns of all were the old high level ones up by the ceiling, adding the flushing force benefit of acceleration due to gravity, given their age most appropriately expressed as 32 feet per second/per second.

I doubt macerators will ever be quiet enough throughout the 24 hours to be acceptable in flats.
.

 

[sjpt]

How very convenient

Shame the link discusses the report but does not reference it.

 

[flecc]

What does Oyster know that Chris Witty, JVT, Spephen Powys etc etc etc don't.
Its amazing.

Oyster and those agreeing with him are not subject to the political influence and pressures that the official figures are subject to.

That's the difference, enabling a truly independent assessment.
.

 

[Danidl]

With respect, in the vaccine, we are talking about a new and complex scientific product, not a toilet. I understand that engineering principles in product design and manufacture apply to your industry, but it’s nothing like vaccine design, manufacture and storage.

Actually not so. There are exact engineering principles within the production of pharmaceutical products,and everyone of the manufacturing and product design principles for toilet seats are applicable ,whether it is aspirin or mRNA . Even the efficacy arguements have parallels . Just as in toilet seats one size does not suit all.
The major difference is only at the interface between product design and efficacy. .. toilet seats or coloestomy bags form and function. This is where the "best efforts " clause of the AZ / EU referred.

 

[oyster]

The extra 2% protection (according to Canadian interpretation of Israeli data) to afford 90% protection for other at risk groups. Sounds like a beneficial trade off to me.
But we have same situation, where a poster on a pedelec forum has more insight into both the initial trial data and now the working data from actual cases than anyone at JCVI or PHE...??? If what you and OG believe is true why aren't JCVI/PHE (and Canadian medical teams) doing what you suggest? What does Oyster know that Chris Witty, JVT, Spephen Powys etc etc etc don't.
Its amazing. The faith you people have in your own abilities. You really should be doing more than posting on an electric bike forum. Running PHE perhaps?
My opinion is that the. Vaccine programme has been exceptional and probably the only thing they have got absolutely as right as possible. Yes, inevitable problems with logistics but in under a year we have gone from no vaccine to approaching 17 million vaccinated. It's actually astonishing. Said it before, the govt, PHE, AZ, Pfizer, NHS and every single person involved deserve praise and encouragement. Brilliant job being done. Thanks to them all.

Far from saying they are wrong, I simply tried to address my difficulty in following the logic as presented in that document.

 

[Zlatan]

Oyster and those agreeing with him are not subject to the political influence and pressures that the official figures are subject to.

That's the difference, enabling a truly independent assessment.
.

That's where we differ tho flecc. I don't see any party politics or collaboration from Chris Witty/JVT or Patrick Valance. (or JCVI/PHE/NHS) Think they, d be saying and doing same thing whoever was in power.
I can't see any evidence at all to collaborate your view.
I suspect questioning their opinion (actually writing it off) on political grounds is simply a way of justifying the anti authority stance.
They aren't saying what you agree with so they must be colluding with government. I suppose the Canadians and Israelis are doing same offering justification for delaying second jab??
Are they colluding with Boris as well?
Your stance makes no sense flecc. Evidence is there saying first jab offers good protection (92% for Canadian figure) at 6 weeks. To my mind their approach has been vindicated and justified. There will be 17 million people in UK tomorrow having had first jab. In 3 weeks that will mean 17 million people with around 90% protection. That has got to be good news no matter what your politics are.

 

[Zlatan]

Far from saying they are wrong, I simply tried to address my difficulty in following the logic as presented in that document.

Your logic. But get your point.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Indeed, today's cisterns with their inadequate flushing are a menace, all those in our flats who have changed to modern toilet suites suffer from them.

I've determinedly clung on to my 53 year old original and as you know replaced it's siphon with a well set up flap valve thus increasing the volume of water still further and it can move mountains, jetting out the soil pipe at the same time.

Of course the best cisterns of all were the old high level ones up by the ceiling, adding the flushing force benefit of acceleration due to gravity, given their age most appropriately expressed as 32 feet per second/per second.

I doubt macerators will ever be quiet enough throughout the 24 hours to be acceptable in flats.
.

I installed a Thomas Crapper high level cistern toilet in our bathroom. It was eye wateringly expensive (the wife wanted it), but the cistern is huge and sits over two meters above ground level. Yank the chain on that baby and there’s an explosion of water Close coupled modern units seem puny by comparison.

 

[flecc]

I installed a Thomas Crapper high level cistern toilet in our bathroom. It was eye wateringly expensive (the wife wanted it), but the cistern is huge and sits over two meters above ground level. Yank the chain on that baby and there’s an explosion of water Close coupled modern units seem puny by comparison.

You'll permanently save money on toilet cleaning fluids etc though, the rapid scouring cleanses the toilet bowl so much better.
.

 

[flecc]

That's where we differ tho flecc. I don't see any party politics or collaboration from Chris Witty/JVT or Patrick Valance. (or JCVI/PHE/NHS) Think they, d be saying and doing same thing whoever was in power.
I can't see any evidence at all to collaborate your view.

Because you have a short memory.

You tried to maintain against me that Patrick Valance had never supported Herd Immunity to agree with the politicians, but I proved that wrong with a video.

Here's the link again to remind you
.

 

[Nev]

You tried to maintain against me that Patrick Valance had never supported Herd Immunity to agree with the politicians, but I proved that wrong with a video.

Here is an extract from the article linked below which references Vallance's thinking at that time.

'Equally, it may never be known exactly why Cheltenham and other major sporting events went ahead that week. Over the same period there was international rugby, a Champions League tie between Liverpool and Atlético Madrid, and nearly a full week of football, brought to an end only when players tested positive on Friday 13 March. That same morning, England’s chief scientific officer, Sir Patrick Vallance, told the BBC that he was opposed to further restrictions and that “our aim is to… build up some kind of herd immunity”. That advice was to change dramatically in the days that followed.'


‘If you wanted to design a virus dispersion hub, you could do worse’: the Cheltenham Festival, one year on | Coronavirus | The Guardian

 

[oldgroaner]

Indeed, today's cisterns with their inadequate flushing are a menace, all those in our flats who have changed to modern toilet suites suffer from them.

I've determinedly clung on to my 53 year old original and as you know replaced it's siphon with a well set up flap valve thus increasing the volume of water still further and it can move mountains, jetting out the soil pipe at the same time.

Of course the best cisterns of all were the old high level ones up by the ceiling, adding the flushing force benefit of acceleration due to gravity, given their age most appropriately expressed as 32 feet per second/per second.

I doubt macerators will ever be quiet enough throughout the 24 hours to be acceptable in flats.
.

That is all true especially the noise issue with macerators

 

[oldgroaner]

You'll permanently save money on toilet cleaning fluids etc though, the rapid scouring cleanses the toilet bowl so much better.
.

And you won't need your drains rodding either!

 

[oldgroaner]

I installed a Thomas Crapper high level cistern toilet in our bathroom. It was eye wateringly expensive (the wife wanted it), but the cistern is huge and sits over two meters above ground level. Yank the chain on that baby and there’s an explosion of water Close coupled modern units seem puny by comparison.

This may sound hard to believe that back in the days of those high level cisterns one of the ways to test them was using 3 inch (ish)ish apples (which also tested the diameter of the outgo and the was a tendency to ovality in firing the pan)
This was before the days of Multikwik push on outgo connectors when the joint on the outgo was made with a hermetite or equivalent two pack compound and there was a large gap that required fitting between the outgo and ceramic bend.
When the Multikwik came out the ovality tolerances had to be very much tighter or you couldn't get a seal

 

[oldgroaner]

I installed a Thomas Crapper high level cistern toilet in our bathroom. It was eye wateringly expensive (the wife wanted it), but the cistern is huge and sits over two meters above ground level. Yank the chain on that baby and there’s an explosion of water Close coupled modern units seem puny by comparison.

You are a naughty boy (but your secret is safe with me)
WRAS Cistern capacity regulations 2000

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Structural, Systemic, Institutional and by far the most common type, Imaginary. I am of course talking about racism.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

This may sound hard to believe that back in the days of those high level cisterns one of the ways to test them was using 3 inch (ish)ish apples (which also tested the diameter of the outgo and the was a tendency to ovality in firing the pan)
This was before the days of Multikwik push on outgo connectors when the joint on the outgo was made with a hermetite or equivalent two pack compound and there was a large gap that required fitting between the outgo and ceramic bend.
When the Multikwik came out the ovality tolerances had to be very much tighter or you couldn't get a seal

I prefer the sherry trifle sponge method of testing. Interesting though and thanks for the info.

 

[Zlatan]

Because you have a short memory.

You tried to maintain against me that Patrick Valance had never supported Herd Immunity to agree with the politicians, but I proved that wrong with a video.

Here's the link again to remind you
.

What's that got to do with vaccine roll out?

And going over old ground again. He does not say herd Immunity was a policy or goal. He says it's a consequence of large numbers getting disease. He says he wants to flatten and broaden the peak... That is not letting infection run riot going for herd Immunity.