Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

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Can you be more specific? That's just rhetoric.

Where's his private army? Is this it?

Wasn't Trump still making his speech while the building was invaded and telling the crowd not to do anything unlawful. Then when he heard about it, he said, "Go home and be safe". Some are saying that he knew about the planned invasion, which is why he extended his speech and kept the crowd away from the building.

Have you seen the videos of the police removing barriers and inviting the crowds in, then the crowd walking around the building between the ropes like they're on a public tour? Normally, the building would have had enhanced security when an event like that was happening right next to it, but apparently someone in charge told them not to bother.

4 people were killed or died during the incident. The girl was shot in cold blood while surrounded by police who were escorting her group of only a few people through the building. That's not disputed. The videos are absolutely clear. One of the protesters managed to taser himself in the chest and died of a heart attack. A young guy was scaling a 30ft vertical wall to a balcony. When he got to the top, a policeman punched him back down, so he fell to his death. A policeman died at the station after he'd received some sort of injury. His cause of death hasn't been published, but his injury wasn'ton the surface bad enough to take him to hospital.

This wasn't an insurrection. The people you can see smashing the windows were all dressed in black, like ninjas, not the regular crowd of Trump supporters. There are different theories for who they were and why they did it from both sides, but if you accept that the security was reduced and the police were told to stand down or help the guys in, it's not likely to be the Trump side.
No .the speeches were over. Trump was safely back in the WH. The storming of the building occurred minutes after Pence indicated that he was proceeding with counting the Votes. After that, the first objection was raised by Cruz to Arizona and it was as this was getting started, that the assault proper got underway . I was watching live as the Secret Service Agents ,rushed in and ushered Pence out .. My immediate reaction was ..That is odd.. probably a bomb threat. There was a few seconds confusion as I think it was Hawley continued speaking, and then the feed moved over to the simultaneous debate in the Congress If you are going to fabricate a timeline get your facts straight. Biden had already been on air and had challenged Trump to call it off , before the first and incendiary broadcast from Trump.
What I can agree is that the level of security was absurd, and there was a totally different response from those inside the chamber and those on the periphery. I would speculate however it was orchestrated by someone very knowledgeable and linked with the Trump Team. I can speculate a name...
The Governor of Maryland, ,who was at a meeting was informed by aides, immediately set about mobilization of his National Guard. He received requests from the Mayor of Washington for assistance and also calls from Pelosi. Now apparently Washington is unique in that the Dept. of Defense has overall jurisdiction, not the Mayor. Anyway the Governor issued orders and organised forward placement of his units as quickly as possible..but could not deploy them. He states he made multiple calls to the Secretary of Defense, who was inexplicably unavailable. Only after 1 or 2 hours did he get the permission...that part of the timeline is fuzzy. That would have been plenty of time to take hostages, force Pence to agree a new set of electors or whatever, and or be hanged, have killed Pelosi and anyone else in the chain of command, leaving Trump the only viable President. Unfortunately for the plotters the few Secret Service Agents and loyal police were able to hold out. The plotters would have assumed that the National Guard of Maryland would only start mobilisation after permission was granted.. But Maryland had them forward located so they could deploy quickly.
What is really damning is that the Secretary of Defense was fired and replaced by Mitchell on 11th November, BY TRUMP. Mitchell would have had a career linked with Flynn.. so you could join those dots.
... Finally it should be noted that the Gov of Maryland is a Republican, and that the actual order to deploy the Guard was not made by the Secretary of Defense, but by a Career Army Officer, who could no longer stand by,and he took the order from Pence. This was two breaches of protocol, in that it Should have been Trump, and it should have been Mitchell.
I read that as an attempted coup and attempted Murder of multiple public representatives.. especially Republicans who wouldn't follow the Trump
 
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Zlatan

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to prove to starmer sceptics that he can win power in 2024.
But he can't. He had a better chance before people got to know him. He comes over weak and whittering.
Its only Guardian saying Boris isn't popular. What has Starmer said or done that might think he could have handled either Covid or Brexit any better. Nothing.. I don't think he, ll be as popular as Corbyn was. At least he got support of left. Left dislike Starmer and centrist might aswell vote Tory???
In a way Labour are worse off now than 3 years ago. What they stood for wasn't popular but at least they stood for something. Starmer is sort of left, sort of right, sort of Blair???
 
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oldgroaner

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to prove to starmer sceptics that he can win power in 2024.
Sorry but I don't see the point of that either
On Marr today he admitted he had reneged on his attitude that free movement should be restored, quite simply I don't trust a man motivated by expediency
 

oyster

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Its only Guardian saying Boris isn't popular.
Far from true - around the globe, people are reporting Johnson's diminished popularity:

Poll shows Johnson's government has lost popularity

By Jonathan Powell in London | China Daily Global | Updated: 2021-01-04 04:14

https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202101/04/WS5ff225baa31024ad0baa020e.html

Stricter lockdown restrictions are likely in the short term , as Prime Minister Boris Johnson's popularity slips .

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/comment-with-brexit-done-the-covid-19-fight-leads-sterling-2021-01-03

4. Johnson’s popularity is plummeting — will the vaccine save him?


The polls show that Britain is not happy with the government. Perhaps that’s inevitable, considering the terrible year we’ve just endured. But it seems the British electorate has had enough of Boris Johnson — a poll at the weekend suggested that if a general election were held tomorrow, Johnson would not only lose his majority but his own west London parliamentary seat (the decision to allow another runway at Heathrow will not have endeared him to constituents).

https://www.thearticle.com/five-key-questions-that-could-dominate-2021
 
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oyster

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No .the speeches were over. Trump was safely back in the WH. The storming of the building occurred minutes after Pence indicated that he was proceeding with counting the Votes. After that, the first objection was raised by Cruz to Arizona and it was as this was getting started, that the assault proper got underway . I was watching live as the Secret Service Agents ,rushed in and ushered Pence out .. My immediate reaction was ..That is odd.. probably a bomb threat. There was a few seconds confusion as I think it was Hawley continued speaking, and then the feed moved over to the simultaneous debate in the Congress If you are going to fabricate a timeline get your facts straight. Biden had already been on air and had challenged Trump to call it off , before the first and incendiary broadcast from Trump.
What I can agree is that the level of security was absurd, and there was a totally different response from those inside the chamber and those on the periphery. I would speculate however it was orchestrated by someone very knowledgeable and linked with the Trump Team. I can speculate a name...
The Governor of Maryland, ,who was at a meeting was informed by aides, immediately set about mobilization of his National Guard. He received requests from the Mayor of Washington for assistance and also calls from Pelosi. Now apparently Washington is unique in that the Dept. of Defense has overall jurisdiction, not the Mayor. Anyway the Governor issued orders and organised forward placement of his units as quickly as possible..but could not deploy them. He states he made multiple calls to the Secretary of Defense, who was inexplicably unavailable. Only after 1 or 2 hours did he get the permission...that part of the timeline is fuzzy. That would have been plenty of time to take hostages, force Pence to agree a new set of electors or whatever, and or be hanged, have killed Pelosi and anyone else in the chain of command, leaving Trump the only viable President. Unfortunately for the plotters the few Secret Service Agents and loyal police were able to hold out. The plotters would have assumed that the National Guard of Maryland would only start mobilisation after permission was granted.. But Maryland had them forward located so they could deploy quickly.
What is really damning is that the Secretary of Defense was fired and replaced by Mitchell on 11th November, BY TRUMP. Mitchell would have had a career linked with Flynn.. so you could join those dots.
A sad bit - every which way you look at it. Not least that Trump appears to have totally ignored him:

U.S. Capitol police officer who died after violent assault 'loved his job'
Sicknick was a Trump supporter, his father said. While his parents avoided talking politics with their son, his family said Sicknick’s political views never interfered with his duty to protect and serve.

“He just got along real well with everybody because he was a gentleman,” said the elder Sicknick.

Sicknick’s father said Vice President Mike Pence and House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi called the family on Friday to offer their condolences. During the call, Pelosi invited the family to the Capitol to pick out a spot for a plaque that will be made in Sicknick’s honor. Funeral services will also be held at the Capitol, according to his father.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN29E0QE
 
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Zlatan

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Far from true - around the globe, people are reporting Johnson's diminished popularity:

Poll shows Johnson's government has lost popularity

By Jonathan Powell in London | China Daily Global | Updated: 2021-01-04 04:14

https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202101/04/WS5ff225baa31024ad0baa020e.html

Stricter lockdown restrictions are likely in the short term , as Prime Minister Boris Johnson's popularity slips .

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/comment-with-brexit-done-the-covid-19-fight-leads-sterling-2021-01-03

4. Johnson’s popularity is plummeting — will the vaccine save him?


The polls show that Britain is not happy with the government. Perhaps that’s inevitable, considering the terrible year we’ve just endured. But it seems the British electorate has had enough of Boris Johnson — a poll at the weekend suggested that if a general election were held tomorrow, Johnson would not only lose his majority but his own west London parliamentary seat (the decision to allow another runway at Heathrow will not have endeared him to constituents).

https://www.thearticle.com/five-key-questions-that-could-dominate-2021
I think you could be right over BJ but as for changing government, I don't think so whatever happens. Ultimately people will ask would Labour or Starmer have done things differently. Well they haven't indicated anything major,yes Starmer occasionally says Lockdown earlier but he hasn't advised much of any difference... Country will think a few years down line that it's easy to say how things should have behaved when it's in hindsight. Especially so when one of salient times was Corbyn refusing to socially distance and his brother protesting against lockdown. We, ve got tories for 10 years. BJ might not be PM but think he will.
 
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Nev

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Seems somehow wrong to preclude driving to the nearest flat walk for the sake of her health. Or even a bit further. We are not exactly crowded here.
I have not checked the latest rules for this current lockdown in Wales but when we had the two week circuit breaker a while back, I am 100% sure there was an exemption for exercise. I can't remember the exact wording but it said something like exercise should start and finish at people homes. It then went on to say in exceptional circumstances people can drive short distances in order to take exercise. One example of an exceptional circumstance they gave was living on steep hills and driving to flatter areas for walking. It might be the case that there is still that exception in place, it would make sense for them to have left it in.
 
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Woosh

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Sorry but I don't see the point of that either
On Marr today he admitted he had reneged on his attitude that free movement should be restored, quite simply I don't trust a man motivated by expediency
if and when the polls say he can win power in 2024, would you vote for Labour or another party?
 
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oyster

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It then went on to say in exceptional circumstances people can drive short distances in order to take exercise. One example of an exceptional circumstance they gave was living on steep hills and driving to flatter areas for walking. It might be the case that there is still that exception in place, it would make sense for them to have left it in.
Yes - it does. But if you sometimes can, sometimes can't, manage round the block, it is less than satisfactory.

For example, one day we manage to walk round the block and say hello to everyone, including the police person who happens to be about. The next day, not feeling so strong, we drive to a flat area. But we see same police person checking up on everyone who has driven to the car park. Even if you can explain and argue your corner, it is a potentially unpleasant experience you can do without. More so when you are already feeling both unwell and finding everything difficult to cope with.

And, are we compelled to go to the nearest flat ground? Or can we go a bit further?

In particular, we see people taking dogs out in their cars - regularly. Often going several miles to a beach. Difficult to argue against if the dog does need a good run.
 
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oyster

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if and when the polls say he can win power in 2024, would you vote for Labour or another party?
My decision might be based on whether the local Labour candidate stood even an outside chance. I couldn't vote so as to leave a tory elected here. But I might actually wish to vote PC.
 
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Jesus H Christ

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I’ve just spoken to an ex colleague up in Nottingham. He’s qualifies for the COVID vaccination due to his current job. He was called forward from the queue this morning and Celebrity Professor JVT off the telly was there injecting people. He gave my friend his vaccination. That’s leadership.
 

oldgroaner

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According to PfizerBiontech there is no evidence that protection after the first dose is sustained beyond three weeks
The American Dr Anthony Fauci said he would not be in favour of the Uk's plan
 

oldgroaner

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Here is an example of a Brexit bonus
Just read part of the Turkey FTA
" FOM for Turks formed part of the recent Turkey FTD, so now you Brexiteers can look forward to "75 million Turks coming for your jobs, houses, schools and hospitals" (Leave Campaign, 2016)
:D
 
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Jesus H Christ

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According to PfizerBiontech there is no evidence that protection after the first dose is sustained beyond three weeks
The American Dr Anthony Fauci said he would not be in favour of the Uk's plan
I wish they’d just follow the instructions on the bottle. Because of the speed with which this vaccine has been developed, people need to have confidence. When they start saying you don’t need to follow the vaccination instructions, it undermines confidence and looks dodgy.
 

Wicky

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I don't believe or disbelieve it. I just put it there to see what your comments are. They seem to me to be a bit blinkered.

BTW, remember the Kraken, I'm going to bet that it's real and we're going to hear more about it very soon.
I do remember - The master plan you said to get the election overturned in favour of Trump in the supreme court - remind us how did that go?

How are plans afoot on Parler going with what Trumpists want to do with VP Pence?
 

oldgroaner

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I wish they’d just follow the instructions on the bottle. Because of the speed with which this vaccine has been developed, people need to have confidence. When they start saying you don’t need to follow the vaccination instructions, it undermines confidence and looks dodgy.
And in a worse case scenario if the manufacturer was right and the government wrong imagine the damage to public confidence if casualties among the once vaccinated start mounting they then have to choose between hiding that fact or risking complete disbelief in any call to the public to take further vaccinations in future
 
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Wicky

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Andrea Eaton, from Coventry, said she was so angry that her 81-year-old mother, who has heart problems and leukaemia, was offered Birmingham for her appointment that she attempted to ring Downing Street on Saturday night to complain.

She said she reached the press office and said: "I want you to give Boris a message please that he has lied to the British public.

"He has told them they never need to go more than 10 miles... they were really rude and just put the phone down on me."


I've heard similar here in NE Essex of shielding elderly told they need to travel to hospitals over 30 miles away to get jabbed.
 
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