Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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I take it that the youth is in his early twenties? I am not saying he deserves a chance, I am saying that it is a case where your bother-in-law can take the law in his hand and nobody is going to blame him if he decides one way or the other.
You know already that the youth won't be able to get the best legal defense. That's an injustice in itself.
Personally, I would not report the youth.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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I take it that the youth is in his early twenties? I am not saying he deserves a chance, I am saying that it is a case where your bother-in-law can take the law in his hand and nobody is going to blame him if he decides one way or the other.
You know already that the youth won't be able to get the best legal defense. That's an injustice in itself.
Personally, I would not report the youth.
The van driver is 29. I totally agree regarding payment for legal defence. That’s unfair.

I think he will continue to drive without insurance unless something is done. For me, that’s the main issue. That could be devastating for the next poor bastard he runs over. Other low income and struggling workers pay for insurance.
 

oyster

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At considerable cost in lives... :-(
I do wish that people wouldn't talk/write about herd immunity as if it were something that exists as a separate entity. It is the consequence of lack of targets for transmission - as that article does say, after a while.
 
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flecc

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I think he will continue to drive without insurance unless something is done. For me, that’s the main issue. That could be devastating for the next poor bastard he runs over. Other low income and struggling workers pay for insurance.
That's one of the things I meant I meant by potentially serious. If he does in fact have insurance the police might deal with it themselves with a formal caution, given that your brother in law doesn't want to make a big deal of the incident. That would mean no punishment, but it would go onto his record to be dealt with if he offended similarly again.

I fully understand where Woosh is coming from, but I view anyone prepared to give false details after knocking someone down as a potential hit and run driver who might leave someone dying in the road, and I can't ignore that.
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Woosh

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it wasn't a hit and run and there is a number plate.
You can't get your car tax without insurance, so I don't know what his problem is.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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it wasn't a hit and run and there is a number plate.
You can't get your car tax without insurance, so I don't know what his problem is.
The problem is my brother-in-law was hit from behind by a van driver and injured whilst cycling in a cycle lane. The van driver gave false insurance details, didn’t leave his name or number plate. It’s only by chance that he was recognised as an ex-pupil that his identity has been established. My brother-in-law and his daughter tracked him down using Facebook & mutual contacts. They found the van parked outside the flat with damage. That’s how they’ve got the number plate.

This man is content to drive without insurance, injure a cyclist and leave the scene without leaving sufficient details to identify himself or his insurance company. I also think the driver must report this incident to the police himself. Because an injury has occurred, it’s a reportable accident. A member of he public who witnessed the accident drove my brother-in-law to hospital. The van driver had gone. That’s quite a problem in my book.

I can see where he’s coming from regarding the potential consequences for the van driver. But there’s only so much slack you can give a person.
 

Woosh

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this is more serious offence than I thought originally.
I thought your brother had been given false insurance details, not that the youth did not give number plate, name, address, telephone number.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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did your brother-in-law take his number plate? I would have thought that number plate would be the first thing I'd write down when exchanging insurance details.
No, he was shocked and injured. It wasn’t until afterwards that he was able to make the connection to the ex-pupil.

He’s now spoken to him and he’s admitting he was driving. He’s offered to pay £100 towards the bike repair, which has been turned down. He’s not after money.

Still not been to the police through fear of consequences for the van driver.
 

jonathan.agnew

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At considerable cost in lives... :-(
And the lower prevalence of covid antibodies in blood donors blood 'was about waning immunity of those that had been infected as well as lower transmission due to herd immunity'. In other words, in the absence of a vaccine one would have to reinfect 52% of the population (with all the deaths that go with that) every year to reestablish herd immunity..
 
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Barry Shittpeas

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at least to the youth's credit, he accepts his liability.
Only because he’s been hunted down, cornered and confronted. I don’t think he’s suddenly been overcome with a sense of doing the right thing. He thought he’d got away with it, or else he’d have gone to the police himself.

I don’t think my brother-in-law is going to do anything else.
 
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oyster

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And the lower prevalence of covid in blood donors blood 'was about waning immunity of those that had been infected as well as lower transmission due to herd immunity'. In other words, in the absence of a vaccine one would have to reinfect 52% of the population (with all the deaths that go with that) every year..
I don't think we have much of an idea as to what happens to people when they are re-infected compared with original infection. I have read suggestions that it might be less serious, or more serious, or (as so much) variable with some less and some more seriously affected. Add onto that varying gaps between original and re-infections. With or without tiny amounts of Covid-19 viruses (below infectious capability) wafting around.
 

Danidl

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The problem is my brother-in-law was hit from behind by a van driver and injured whilst cycling in a cycle lane. The van driver gave false insurance details, didn’t leave his name or number plate. It’s only by chance that he was recognised as an ex-pupil that his identity has been established. My brother-in-law and his daughter tracked him down using Facebook & mutual contacts. They found the van parked outside the flat with damage. That’s how they’ve got the number plate.

This man is content to drive without insurance, injure a cyclist and leave the scene without leaving sufficient details to identify himself or his insurance company. I also think the driver must report this incident to the police himself. Because an injury has occurred, it’s a reportable accident. A member of he public who witnessed the accident drove my brother-in-law to hospital. The van driver had gone. That’s quite a problem in my book.

I can see where he’s coming from regarding the potential consequences for the van driver. But there’s only so much slack you can give a person.
As you know, I don't often agree with you, but this is a case where the law must take it's course. The best compromise would be to let the guy know, and tell him that he has been sussed ,but he can go down to the station and make things right. ...They tend to look more favourable on these cases. The threat being that he will be reported three hours later . Not any longer as he might decide to take different action.
My wife had a leg broken by an uninsured motorist ,whose car mounted the pavement ,as he misjudged a turn. Now he then did everything right ... Staying till the ambulance and police. In court he got away lightly

Edit... Now that he has been made aware, he should go to the police.. he can create a story that he now realises he should have reported it earlier as he did not know the person was injured. Incidentally ,how were you sure in your earlier postings that he was uninsured , if he gave false data.?
 
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Woosh

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Only because he’s been hunted down, cornered and confronted. I don’t think he’s suddenly been overcome with a sense of doing the right thing. He thought he’d got away with it, or else he’d have gone to the police himself.

I don’t think my brother-in-law is going to do anything else.
Although I think the youth behaved appallingly and he deserves a week or two community work, I would accept an offer to pay for the repair cost and leave it at that.
 

jonathan.agnew

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I don't think we have much of an idea as to what happens to people when they are re-infected compared with original infection. I have read suggestions that it might be less serious, or more serious, or (as so much) variable with some less and some more seriously affected. Add onto that varying gaps between original and re-infections. With or without tiny amounts of Covid-19 viruses (below infectious capability) wafting around.
Yes and someone like shahid jameel (Indian virologist who works for WHO) claims reinfection is very rare. But with the testing fiasco - in reality in most countries - I dont think anyone knows how often it happens to previously a/less symptomatic individuals. Put it this way, would you stay in that Brazilian city or leave if you could?
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Only because he’s been hunted down, cornered and confronted. I don’t think he’s suddenly been overcome with a sense of doing the right thing. He thought he’d got away with it, or else he’d have gone to the police himself.

I don’t think my brother-in-law is going to do anything else.
At the risk of turning this thread into "the moral maze" (who's up for being melanie Phillips?). A similar (but also very different) case caught my eye in bbc news this week. A bus driver took a shine to a female passenger who's details he took for possible test and trace. He texted her saying he found her attractive. She reported him to his company for breaching the data protection act and he lost his job. Which she said she was very happy about. Which I thought rather harsh. I thought there must have been a different way to make him respect appropriate boundaries that doesn't involve losing his livelihood in the teeth of a pandemic.
 

flecc

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it wasn't a hit and run and there is a number plate.
You can't get your car tax without insurance, so I don't know what his problem is.
No-one said it was a hit and run, anyone who gives false details to escape the consequences of an accident injuring someone clearly has the potential to be a hit and run driver.

My position is the same as yours where no person is involved. I've twice in my 68 year driving life excused someone from paying anything for the damage they admitted doing to a car of mine where I could fix it myself at minimal cost. On another occasion of car and mirror damage I let them off with just paying the £53 for the new door mirror.

But when a cyclist or pedestrian is hit by bad driving as in this case (in a cycle lane), especially if they are hurt and even more especially if the driver gives false details, no way should it go unrecorded.
.
 
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Barry Shittpeas

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Although I think the youth behaved appallingly and he deserves a week or two community work, I would accept an offer to pay for the repair cost and leave it at that.
My brother-in-law doesn’t want any money off him.

I like Danidl’s suggestion. Give the youth a chance to report himself. That would count very well in his favour and he might learn a lesson for the future. I’m going to pass that on.
 
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Barry Shittpeas

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Jan 1, 2020
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At the risk of turning this thread into "the moral maze" (who's up for being melanie Phillips?). A similar (but also very different) case caught my eye in bbc news this week. A bus driver took a shine to a female passenger who's details he took for possible test and trace. He texted her saying he found her attractive. She reported him to his company for breaching the data protection act and he lost his job. Which she said she was very happy about. Which I thought rather harsh. I thought there must have been a different way to make him respect appropriate boundaries that doesn't involve losing his livelihood in the teeth of a pandemic.
It does seem a bit harsh and will have far reaching implications for the man and his family.

However, we are in the midst of a global pandemic and people need to feel confident that when they provide contact tracing information, it want be used by a bus driver to try and get his hands on a lady’s paps.
 
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