Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I’ll answer both of your posts. The police officers didn’t arrive at work that morning and think, I know, let’s go out and kill someone.

They went to carry out a lawful warrant. They then came under gunfire and shot back, killing an innocent person who got in the way. It was the person shooting at the police to begin with that started the chain of events which ended with the innocent woman getting shot. The bloke firing at the police caused her death. The cops aren’t just going to stand there and let someone take shots until he hits one of them. They need to get a bullet through his face before he kills one of them. Unfortunately on this occasion, that woman on Lewis Hamilton’s T shirt got shot. Sad but the man who shot first caused her death. It needn’t have been that way.

Police are supposed to protect the public not behave as fascist storm troopers, sorry but excusing such behaviour reflects very badly on your attitude.
They are not authorised to use deadly force indiscriminately.
The person who caused the woman's death was the man that fired the gun.
His duty was to protect himself, but not to kill others to do so.

 

[oldgroaner]

All he had to do was follow the policeman’s instructions. He killed the woman, not the police.

Amazing that he could operate a policeman's weapon by remote control eh?
Talk sense.

 

[oldgroaner]

I’ll answer both of your posts. The police officers didn’t arrive at work that morning and think, I know, let’s go out and kill someone.

They went to carry out a lawful warrant. They then came under gunfire and shot back, killing an innocent person who got in the way. It was the person shooting at the police to begin with that started the chain of events which ended with the innocent woman getting shot. The bloke firing at the police caused her death. The cops aren’t just going to stand there and let someone take shots until he hits one of them. They need to get a bullet through his face before he kills one of them. Unfortunately on this occasion, that woman on Lewis Hamilton’s T shirt got shot. Sad but the man who shot first caused her death. It needn’t have been that way.

And shouldn't have been the police overstepped the mark and should face prosecution for illegally killing a member of the public

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

And shouldn't have been the police overstepped the mark and should face prosecution for illegally killing a member of the public

No, the police were victims of an attempted murder. They should receive commendations for bravery.

 

[Woosh]

The police acted entirely appropriately. They came under fire whilst carrying out their duty. They shot back and ended the threat before one of them was killed. No one would have been killed had the criminal not opened fire first.

of course they came under fire and had to defend themselves but they are supposed to be trained for precisely this sort of situations.
The right course of action is to call for help and pin the guy who shot at them if possible, not to spray the flat with bullets from the outside and hit a by-stander.
As it turned out, no drug was found, no crime was committed, no one was charged except one policeman for firing indiscriminately.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

No, the police were victims of an attempted murder. They should receive commendations for bravery.
[/QUOTE]
Brett Hankison - the only policeman discharged from duty after the event - fired six shots indiscriminately through a closed patio door with closed blinds. There was no line of sight and he was not acting in self defence. If you or I did it, outside trump's racist usa, we'd get the full oscar Pistorius treatment (without expensive laywers). Im repeating what Daniel said but they went to the wrong address to look for someone who had already been detained that morning. It was extreme incompetence. Police are capable of that. She was a decorated emergency medical technician. Theres a lot more self sacrifice to that than being a detective.

 

[wheeler]

The police acted entirely appropriately. They came under fire whilst carrying out their duty. They shot back and ended the threat before one of them was killed. No one would have been killed had the criminal not opened fire first.

Appropriate? 20 rounds discharged by police, 5 or 6 struck the deceased, several entered an adjoining apartment and not one of the remaining shots found the target, the man who fired one shot from a licenced firearm.
The police shat themselves and returned fire on a spray and pray basis, that is not appropriate for a professional police service.

 

[Nev]

The reporter said the man was arrested because the Police had found him in possession of a small quantity of ammunition.

The Guardian is also reporting that Police found ammunition and cannabis on the man when he was initially searched and that he was handcuffed (hands behind his back), and quite remarkably they did not find a revolver that he had hidden. He then managed to shoot the Police officer and himself while still handcuffed with his hands behind his back.

Suspect in Croydon police shooting had hands cuffed behind his back

Investigators trying to establish how gunman was able to kill Sgt Matt Ratana inside police station

www.theguardian.com

 

[Nev]

The police shat themselves and returned fire on a spray and pray basis, that is not appropriate for a professional police service.

I agree but I think we need to be careful not to assume some of the police forces in the states are anything like trained to the standards that our police officers in this country are (btw I am not trying to make out ours are brilliant).

I was listening to a retired American police officer talking on the radio a few weeks back. He had been looking at our policing system and comparing it to what they have in the USA. I can't remember all the details and some of these numbers may not be totally accurate but they will be very close to being correct.

He said the UK has 49 police forces all of which have very similar training standards, and the training is of a very high standard and if you want to be an armed officer then there is more training that is required. He praised our system and said across all the forces that standards were maintained and there was not a huge variation in standards between one force and another.

He then went on to describe the police forces in the USA, he said there are 18000 different police forces over there, this absolutely amazed me. He said the vast majority of the police forces consisted of less than 20 officers. Training was not standardized across all these forces and varied enormously. In some forces training could be just a few weeks often less than a month. He also went on to say back ground checks on recruits to some forces are very poor, and there are many cases where an officer may be kicked out of one force for bad behaviour will just join another force and gets away with it.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, the police were victims of an attempted murder. They should receive commendations for bravery.

How brave, not only did they kill the wrong person , some of the shots penetrated a neighbour's apartment endangering them too.

You are lapsing into a dangerous state of mind when you commend rash acts that have unintended lethal consequences by dangerous individuals who are not fit to wear a law enforcement badge

 

[daveboy]

The Guardian is also reporting that Police found ammunition and cannabis on the man when he was initially searched and that he was handcuffed (hands behind his back), and quite remarkably they did not find a revolver that he had hidden. He then managed to shoot the Police officer and himself while still handcuffed with his hands behind his back.

Suspect in Croydon police shooting had hands cuffed behind his back

Investigators trying to establish how gunman was able to kill Sgt Matt Ratana inside police station

www.theguardian.com

From What I have seen on TV. they remove the cuffs in front of the custody sergeant (this would fit) as long as they are not kicking off at the time. The gun will have been stuffed down his underpants and they don't do a strip search until they get him in a cell. again from what I've seen on TV Police programs. If he managed to shoot the Police officer in the chest and himself in the neck while in handcuffs behind his back it must have been more bad luck than skill.

 

[Woosh]

I find that the suspect could conceal a handgun for hours when so many police officers were around difficult to believe.
the police could have given a little more details about the weapon and if there are witnesses.

 

[oyster]

Yikes! Is he that incompetent?

Johnson’s “friends” briefed the Times last week that he was not enjoying the job of prime minister, beset by money worries without the prop of his £275,000 columnist’s salary and struggling to afford a nanny for baby Wilfred.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/26/dont-bake-in-a-tent-boris-johnsons-painful-week-as-a-punchline

According to Celebrity Net Worth, he is believed to be worth approximately £1.6 million.

Earlier this year, it was reported that Boris sold his marital home for £3.7 million after divorcing from his second wife, Marina Wheeler QC.

He now lives in a £1.3 million mansion with current girlfriend, Carrie Symonds, 31, a former political public relation specialist.

In a report published by Wageindicator.co.uk, it states that he has an annual income of £158,000.
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/life/1206386/boris-johnson-net-worth

It was he who decided to take this path. Did he not do any planning at all of his own finances?

It is not as if he won't be expecting a considerable income post-PM. And if he wants to start trying to cash in on that by resigning, I'll not get in his way.

Let him eat hampers. (Though poor chap has only had two this year - £350 and £750.)

 

[oldgroaner]

The Guardian is also reporting that Police found ammunition and cannabis on the man when he was initially searched and that he was handcuffed (hands behind his back), and quite remarkably they did not find a revolver that he had hidden. He then managed to shoot the Police officer and himself while still handcuffed with his hands behind his back.

Suspect in Croydon police shooting had hands cuffed behind his back

Investigators trying to establish how gunman was able to kill Sgt Matt Ratana inside police station

www.theguardian.com

Houdini clearly never died

 

[flecc]

I find that the suspect could conceal a handgun for hours when so many police officers were around difficult to believe.
the police could have given a little more details about the weapon and if there are witnesses.

As I repied to you yesterday and Barry attacked me for, the police will put the best possible light upon the events. There's clearly some reconstruction going on here.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Just had a call from my brother-in-law. A youth in a van knocked him off his bike yesterday. Hit him from behind whilst he was in a cycle lane. Four stitches in his arm and grazing and bruising.

The van driver gave him false insurance details and cleared off. My brother-in-law is an ex teacher and recognised the youth as an ex-pupil and has now tracked him down. The van driver doesn't know this yet.

The brother-in-law has found out he is a jobbing builder, lives in a flat in the crap end of town and his wife had a baby two weeks ago. He's just phoned me to talk through what he should do. He's concerned the youth will lose his licence, his ability to earn and then his flat if he can't pay the rent. He's considering going to the police.

I think he's being too soft. Just wondered what others thought? (he's not intending claiming any personal injury by the way, or for his bike repair)(.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

As I repied to you yesterday and Barry attacked me for, the police will put the best possible light upon the events. There's clearly some reconstruction going on here.
.

That wasn’t an attack flecc, it was a friendly prod. You’re my oldest friend on here and I wouldn’t want anything like this to come between us

 

[Woosh]

The brother-in-law has found out he is a jobbing builder, lives in a flat in the crap end of town and his wife had a baby two weeks ago. He's just phoned me to talk through what he should do. He's concerned the youth will lose his licence, his ability to earn and then his flat if he can't pay the rent. He's considering going to the police.

your brother-in-law is a good man.
he has already known in his heart the correct answer.

 

[flecc]

Just had a call from my brother-in-law. A youth in a van knocked him off his bike yesterday. Hit him from behind whilst he was in a cycle lane. Four stitches in his arm and grazing and bruising.

The van driver gave him false insurance details and cleared off. My brother-in-law is an ex teacher and recognised the youth as an ex-pupil and has now tracked him down. The van driver doesn't know this yet.

The brother-in-law has found out he is a jobbing builder, lives in a flat in the crap end of town and his wife had a baby two weeks ago. He's just phoned me to talk through what he should do. He's concerned the youth will lose his licence, his ability to earn and then his flat if he can't pay the rent. He's considering going to the police.

I think he's being too soft. Just wondered what others thought? (he's not intending claiming any personal injury by the way, or for his bike repair)(.

Your brother in law is obviously a very decent and considerate man.

However, the van driver giving false details is a potentially very serious offence which should be reported to go onto his record. The van drivers circumstances is properly a matter for the courts to consider and act appropriately when deciding on punishment, and it's not for your brother in law to usurp that.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Your brother in law is obviously a very decent and considerate man.

However, the van driver giving false details is a potentially very serious offence which should be reported to go onto his record. The van drivers circumstances is properly a matter for the courts to consider and act appropriately when deciding on punishment, and it's not for your brother in law to usurp that.
.

Thanks Woosh & flecc. Yes, he’s a nice man and I can see where he’s coming from.

My thoughts are that unless something is done, the van driver will continue to drive without insurance. That’s a 100% given.

What if the next person who gets knocked off a bike isn’t so lucky and sustains an injury which curtails their ability to earn a living? If there is no insurance, who’s going to look after them?

I tend to agree with flecc, let the court decide when presented with all the facts and personal circumstances. But, I doubt the van driver could afford to hire Mr Loophole, the guy all the footballers use to represent them in court.