Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Most of our delivery people are very sensible - something like put it on the mat, ring the bell and walk off. They do look back to check you are taking it in! (Have to say, most of them are friendly, efficient and sensible. Unlike where I used to live.)

Exactly the same here in London, every delivery I've had being like it. Item on the doorstep, ring bell, step back a couple of metres and wait, then point to the item when I open the door.

Snag is they have to use the communal hall door handles which everyone has been mauling to both get in to my door and then get back out.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

I thought the issue was more the transmission in the first place to that child, then on to others (children and adults - within and without the school).

We do not (yet?) know where this child became infected.

That’s something that isn’t spoken about. The emphasis is always about how small the risk to the child is when it becomes infected. Never about how that infected child can spread the disease to adults such as parents, teachers, grandparents etc, many of whom could be in serious trouble if they caught it. That side of things is completely disregarded.

Young people are behaving appallingly and with no thought for the people around them. A very real, I’m alright, F everyone else attitude. That’s fine, I don’t mind if that’s how they choose to behave, no one is forcing them into taking that attitude, but don’t expect teachers to educate them, they have their own and their family’s health to consider. Just leave them to waste and slam the handouts door firmly shut in their faces when they can’t find work because they have chosen to not accept an education.

 

[daveboy]

Fat kids.... last to get picked for Sport...First to get picked for Covid.

Edited.. for clarification.

 

[flecc]

That’s something that isn’t spoken about. The emphasis is always about how small the risk to the child is when it becomes infected. Never about how that infected child can spread the disease to adults such as parents, teachers, grandparents etc, many of whom could be in serious trouble if they caught it. That side of things is completely disregarded.

No it isn't, I don't know how you've got this idea. The issue is how children so rarely ever get the infection, seeming to have an immunity. Since they don't get it, they can't spread it.

Sweden has demonstrated this very clearly. Their children have all stayed in school throughout the pandemic yet the teachers only have the same infection rate as the rest of their population

Ross triggered this by reporting one child with Covid-19. So what, there's 11.7 million 4 to 18 year olds in the country.

So one 1 child in 11.7 million infected against 7,700 adults per 11.7 millions.

Risk for children and the adults they associate with, virtually non existent.
.

 

[flecc]

Last to get picked for Sport...First to get picked for Covid.

??????????
.

 

[daveboy]

??????????
.

Following on from your statement that some kids are more vulnerable. The fat Kid was
always the last to get picked in games lessons. First to get picked for Covid.

 

[flecc]

Following on from your statement that some kids are more vulnerable. The fat Kid was
always the last to get picked in games lessons. First to get picked for Covid.

Understood, but the kids aren't getting Covid-19, and we know that lots of them are fat or even obese these days.

The one very clear common factor with Covid vulnerability is age. Kids are virtually immune, but as population age increases the infection rate increases.

And at any age prior medical conditions increase the risk of death once Covid-19 is caught, but I've seen no conclusive evidence that a medical condition increases the chance of actually catching it. Catching it just seems to be a matter of age, opportunities for viral transfer and bad luck.
.

 

[Nev]

The fat Kid

Would this be the offspring of the infamous 'fat Brexit Dad' that Barry mentions now and again?

 

[Nev]

Less damaging than usual...

Leaked Liz Truss letter warns that Boris Johnson's Brexit border plans risk smuggling, legal challenge, and global reputational damage
https://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-liz-truss-letter-boris-johnson-brexit-border-plans-concerns-risks-2020-7?r=US&IR=T

I wonder if the penny is finally starting to drop with some of the Brexitiers, the problems that many people have been pointing out with the entire project and they have been ignoring are maybe starting to finally get through to them.

 

[oyster]

I wonder if the penny is finally starting to drop with some of the Brexitiers, the problems that many people have been pointing out with the entire project and they have been ignoring are maybe starting to finally get through to them.

Far too optimistic.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

No it isn't, I don't know how you've got this idea. The issue is how children so rarely ever get the infection, seeming to have an immunity. Since they don't get it, they can't spread it.

Sweden has demonstrated this very clearly. Their children have all stayed in school throughout the pandemic yet the teachers only have the same infection rate as the rest of their population

Ross triggered this by reporting one child with Covid-19. So what, there's 11.7 million 4 to 18 year olds in the country.

So one 1 child in 11.7 million infected against 7,700 adults per 11.7 millions.

Risk for children and the adults they associate with, virtually non existent.
.

Is it a case of children not getting coronavirus, or is it a case of them getting it, but having absolutely no symptoms? I don’t think we know the answer to that question yet.

 

[Wicky]

Sorry, I can’t get over the ten thousand million pounds spent on track & trace. Where has all that money gone? If they have 25000 tracers, that’s 400 Grand each! I know there is infrastructure and set up costs to take into account, but I can’t comprehend where all that cheese has gone. The majority has to be in fees and wages, there is very little in “raw material” costs. Someone must be getting filthy rich on the back of all this death and suffering, and it isn’t the £12 / hour contact tracers.

PPE spend is fifteen thousand million pounds, I haven’t started thinking about that yet.

What sort of a job are these people going to make of Brexit.

Boris's CV > botched Garden Bridge project with nothing built cost £53 miilion and the website cost £161K / Gala dinner £400K...

There's bucket loads of money to be made from failure.

 

[flecc]

Is it a case of children not getting coronavirus, or is it a case of them getting it, but having absolutely no symptoms? I don’t think we know the answer to that question yet.

If they have absolutely no symptoms, they haven't caught it. No symptoms whatsoever mean no illness is being suffered, other than the ill fortune of having been born.

And you're ignoring the valuable evidence from Sweden of teachers not contracting anything extra from children, despite their close proximity as usual throughout the pandemic.

I say valuable evidence since they are the one country reporting reliably which at the outset didn't lock down with social distancing at all or make any other defensive changes. Their lives just carried on as usual so they've suffered virtually no economic damage in consequence. I wish we'd done the same and for decades of paying off debt we will live to regret that we didn't.
.

 

[Wicky]

a scan of Swedish newspapers makes clear that school outbreaks have occurred. In the town of Skellefteå, a teacher died and 18 of 76 staff tested positive at a school with about 500 students in preschool through ninth grade. The school closed for 2 weeks because so many staff were sick, but students were not tested for the virus. In Uppsala, staff protested when school officials, citing patient privacy rules, declined to notify families or staff that a teacher had tested positive. No contact tracing was done at the school. At least two staff members at other schools have died, but those schools remained open and no one attempted to trace the spread of the disease there. When asked about these cases, Ludvigsson said he was unaware of them. He did not respond to a query about whether he would amend the review article to include them.

An indirect clue about schools’ role in spread might come from antibody studies. On 19 May, the Swedish Public Health Agency announced preliminary results from antibody surveys of 1100 people from nine regions. They reported that antibody prevalence in children and teenagers was 4.7%, compared with 6.7% in adults age 20 to 64 and 2.7% in 65- to 70-year-olds. The relatively high rate in children suggests there may have been significant spread in schools. The agency did not provide more specific data to distinguish between younger children and those in high schools and universities, which have switched to remote teaching.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

 

[RossG]

I see this thing of kid's getting covid (or not) like this. If young children are extremely unlikely to get it well great, that means you can't catch it off the surface of a tin of beans and you can't catch it off young Billy.
The problem there is we know it could linger on that tin for some hours the same as it could linger on Billy for some hours too, the tin sits on a supermarket maybe for days so if it's touched and placed back the chances are it's ok when you touch it....can you say the same for Billy ? Kid's are alright, it's as the old saying goes "I know where they've been ! "

 

[flecc]

Boris's CV > botched Garden Bridge project with nothing built cost £53 miilion and the website cost £161K / Gala dinner £400K...

There's bucket loads of money to be made from failure.

Like invisible ferries sailing from ports that couldn't handle them.

Boris and his ilk are about jobs for their pals, a number of them proven or wannabee crooks.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Boris's CV > botched Garden Bridge project with nothing built cost £53 miilion and the website cost £161K / Gala dinner £400K...

There's bucket loads of money to be made from failure.

I know, but think about the test and trace. It has cost four hundred thousand pounds to put in place each of the 25000 contact tracers. Four hundred thousand pounds each, and it still doesn't work. How is it possible to spend so much money? What has it been spent on? I can't figure it out.

If you had a man throwing £50 notes onto a bonfire at the rate of one every second, working 24 hours per day, 365 days per year, it would take him nearly six and a half years to burn the money already spent on track & trace. Where-the-**** has it all gone? I simply cannot comprehend that after so much money has been spent, it's still shite.

Maybe Coronavirus is being used as cover to transfer more wealth from state to the private individual. Something is very very wrong here.

 

[flecc]

a scan of Swedish newspapers. An indirect clue about schools’ role in spread might come from antibody studies. On 19 May, the Swedish Public Health Agency announced preliminary results from antibody surveys of 1100 people from nine regions. They reported that antibody prevalence in children and teenagers was 4.7%, compared with 6.7% in adults age 20 to 64 and 2.7% in 65- to 70-year-olds. The relatively high rate in children suggests there may have been significant spread in schools. The agency did not provide more specific data to distinguish between younger children and those in high schools and universities, which have switched to remote teaching.

There's no doubt that Covid-19 has been relished by the doom mongers who delight in bad news about anything, we've plenty of them in here. Therefore I always look carefully at the language they use.

Everything I've highlighted above introduces evidentially suspect elements, so I treat it with caution.

Of course Sweden has suffered medically from their decisions and I've never denied it, but they've hugely gained financially from those decisions. Currently our UK position is far worse, a much higher death rate than theirs combined with immense economic and psychological damage that we'll suffer from for decades.

I'm convinced that Sweden will eventually have proved to have made the far better choice on balance, that of largely letting the disease take its course without horrifically expensive futile attempts to prevent it.

Of course we could both have taken very early attempts at controlling it better, but that ship sailed long ago and it's revealing how those who claimed early success that way are now all suffering large surges of reinfection.

It supports what I've been maintaining here, despite much opposition, that there is no escaping it so better to get it over with quickly to greatly minimise the overall damage.
.

 

[mike killay]

There's no doubt that Covid-19 has been relished by the doom mongers who delight in bad news about anything, we've plenty of them in here. Therefore I always look carefully at the language they use.

Everything I've highlighted above introduces evidentially suspect elements, so I treat it with caution.

Of course Sweden has suffered medically from their decisions and I've never denied it, but they've hugely gained financially from those decisions. Currently our UK position is far worse, a much higher death rate than theirs combined with immense economic and psychological damage that we'll suffer from for decades.

I'm convinced that Sweden will eventually have proved to have made the far better choice on balance, that of largely letting the disease take its course without horrifically expensive futile attempts to prevent it.

Of course we could both have taken very early attempts at controlling it better, but that ship sailed long ago and it's revealing how those who claimed early success that way are now all suffering large surges of reinfection.

It supports what I've been maintaining here, despite much opposition, that there is no escaping it so better to get it over with quickly to greatly minimise the overall damage.
.

The only downside to your proposal of 'get it over quick' was the possibility of the NHS getting overwhelmed by cases.
However, once the Nightingale hospitals were built, we probably could have relaxed some restrictions.

 

[RossG]

A few days ago I went up the road to Portsmouth to do some shopping, during the visit there I went to Toolstation to get a wall socket. The entrance doors were open so I walked straight in and all hell broke loose !
All the staff present started shouting at me to get out and one staff member even physically cajoled back outside.
An argument broke out and I said if no one was allowed in why were the doors open ? Apparently there should have been a table blocking the entrance but it had been moved, eventually it all calmed down and I was served from outside the building. As I spoke to the guy I told him I might as well remove my mask as I was staying outside and he then proceeded to give me a lecture what a waste of time masks were, going on about particle size of droplets build up of germs inside the mask etc. etc.
I just smiled as I didn't want another argument but I did say it was as much for his protection as mine I was using a mask. He shook his head smiled and said that didn't work either, he the told me he'd already caught it but was in the clear. He said he'd cured himself by jogging four miles a night....and bang, all gone.
I told him he should be working for the Government advising them...the joke went over his head.
Having got my purchase I decided to have a pop at him, I said whoever had given all that Medical & Scientific advice was winding him up, and went on to say I'd never heard such a load of bs in all my life and that everything he'd said was utter nonsense. Surprisingly he agreed there was a lot of conflicting advice floating around and apologised.