Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Good old Serco:

Coronavirus: Serco apologises for sharing contact tracers' email addresses
BBC

'No one had any idea': Contact tracers lack knowledge about Covid-19 job

Employees told to consult YouTube for advice on how to deal with a bereaved person
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/20/no-one-had-any-idea-contact-tracers-lack-knowledge-about-covid-19-job

 

[flecc]

The figure came up in reply not just to London but UK/England when govt was imploring folk to seek alternative to public transport when getting to & from work .

That figures, a deliberately favourable short distance for their political purpose.

Of course it's easy to engineer such a short average distance, just include those who live almost alongside their work to bring the average distance number right down. Like here in Croydon where we have the odd tower blocks of hundreds of small flats in the centre where the tower blocks of offices are and they can arrive at work still rubbing sleep from their eyes!

That's got no relationship to the reality for the huge numbers who commute into London from afar.
.

 

[Danidl]

That figures, a deliberately favourable short distance for their political purpose.

Of course it's easy to engineer such a short average distance, just include those who live almost alongside their work to bring the average distance number right down. Like here in Croydon where we have the odd tower blocks of hundreds of small flats in the centre where the tower blocks of offices are and they can arrive at work still rubbing sleep from their eyes!

That's got no relationship to the reality for the huge numbers who commute into London from afar.
.

Surprise...that exactly was my point. Here in Ireland , before the advent of the Celtic Tiger phase 2000/ .2008 we would have been incredulous about the commuting distances suffered by London workers e.g from say Oxford or Hastings ,which we would have seen in sit coms . But there must also be the millions of small shopkeepers living over their shops,and with commuting distances measured in feet,in these local villages of London.

 

[oyster]

What is the maximum sentence for snearing and smirking?

Patel says she wants to double maximum sentence for people who cough at police officers

Why only police? Surely coughing at anyone should be taken as a serious offence in these times. Be interesting to see her views if someone got a lighter (half) sentence after coughing at her simply because she isn't a police officer. Especially if she actually contracted covid-19 from it.

 

[Danidl]

To use a Donald Trumpism, it looks like we are currently doing about 400 / day. I think the death line is on the cusp of kicking upwards again. If we do more than 400 tomorrow, there definitely will be an upturn.

Under estimate there . yesterday it 565. Now in fairness there is often a lag at weekends,so if you add the Sundays 160 and average you get your 400.

 

[Danidl]

What is the maximum sentence for snearing and smirking?

Patel says she wants to double maximum sentence for people who cough at police officers

Why only police? Surely coughing at anyone should be taken as a serious offence in these times. Be interesting to see her views if someone got a lighter (half) sentence after coughing at her simply because she isn't a police officer. Especially if she actually contracted covid-19 from it.

There are two points here. An inadvertent cough is an accident, a deliberate cough is an assult.
The police are more likely to be assaulted than a general member of the public, ,as they are more often in conflict situations (obviously pro rata)

 

[oyster]

There are two points here. An inadvertent cough is an accident, a deliberate cough is an assult.
The police are more likely to be assaulted than a general member of the public, ,as they are more often in conflict situations (obviously pro rata)

Of course, an accidental cough is just that. (One of the fundamental reasons wearing masks might well be a GOOD IDEA!) Hence the expression "cough at" - a deliberate act.

I can imagine cases where the victim is just outwith the definitions of the act.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

What is the maximum sentence for snearing and smirking?

Patel says she wants to double maximum sentence for people who cough at police officers

Why only police? Surely coughing at anyone should be taken as a serious offence in these times. Be interesting to see her views if someone got a lighter (half) sentence after coughing at her simply because she isn't a police officer. Especially if she actually contracted covid-19 from it.

Just class deliberately coughing in an officer’s face as a life threatening act which justifies a lethal level of force to defend against it.

 

[oyster]

Just class deliberately coughing in an officer’s face as a life threatening act which justifies a lethal level of force to defend against it.

If the reports of the railway worker, Belly, who was spat at then died are proved to be accurate, then spitting might well have been tantamount to murder.

I'd be extremely annoyed to be someone like a railway worked and excluded from the extra protection. Railway person chatting to a policeperson - someone decides to spit/cough, choose the railway worked as the punishment is lower. (I know that is unlikely but it is how it would feel to many.)

 

[flecc]

Surprise...that exactly was my point. Here in Ireland , before the advent of the Celtic Tiger phase 2000/ .2008 we would have been incredulous about the commuting distances suffered by London workers e.g from say Oxford or Hastings ,which we would have seen in sit coms . But there must also be the millions of small shopkeepers living over their shops,and with commuting distances measured in feet,in these local villages of London.

But they aren't commuters in the widely accepted sense Danidl.

It's a nonsense to take it to such extremes, opening it to my doing it with the other extremes. Such as my neighbour who car commutes 40 miles each way to Brighton, those many like myself who often commuted to different destinations each day, often distant and even abroad, the numerous London businessman who commute to work from London City Airport and Heathrow to Europe, the USA, China and many other places worldwide. They would soon make a mess of the 9.1 miles claim.

With 70 of my 84 years in London, I know this subject far better than the link sources, which are obviously based upon guestimations made from various other estimations and sometimes deliberately biased to fit the need.

I'm frankly surprised you persisted with this since it says little about the scientific rigour you profess to have. What are the parameters for these claimed averages? What are the sources for the average information?
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

If the reports of the railway worker, Belly, who was spat at then died are proved to be accurate, then spitting might well have been tantamount to murder.

I'd be extremely annoyed to be someone like a railway worked and excluded from the extra protection. Railway person chatting to a policeperson - someone decides to spit/cough, choose the railway worked as the punishment is lower. (I know that is unlikely but it is how it would feel to many.)

I just thought that because the police are dealing exclusively with scum and not normal human beings, they would benefit from an enhanced level of protection. I’d be happy for powers enabling railway workers to beat scum to death to be rolled out.

 

[RossG]

I can see Pratty Patel running into all sorts of problems if she persists in moving forward with any ideas of increasing sentencing just for coughing, there's so many if's & but's I don't know where to start.

If a cop has to struggle to apprehend a villain that could well involve a headlock or some similar kind of restraint, in turn that person may well find themselves choking & spluttering for breath, would that constitute a deliberate coughing assault ?
If that person coughs into the face of an officer that would be deliberate (maybe) but if they coughed away from the officers face would that still be a deliberate attempt to harm ? Say they coughed to one side or downwards, are they choking, coughing or what ?

The biggest problem would be any increase in punishment would need to apply to any coughing offence directed at anyone. Punching a police officer is an assault as is thumping a schoolteacher, it can't be one law for one etc.
Personally I think punishment's for assaults should be increased across the board anyway and not just for deliberate coughing at someone.

 

[oyster]

I can see Pratty Patel running into all sorts of problems if she persists in moving forward with any ideas of increasing sentencing just for coughing, there's so many if's & but's I don't know where to start.

If a cop has to struggle to apprehend a villain that could well involve a headlock or some similar kind of restraint, in turn that person may well find themselves choking & spluttering for breath, would that constitute a deliberate coughing assault ?
If that person coughs into the face of an officer that would be deliberate (maybe) but if they coughed away from the officers face would that still be a deliberate attempt to harm ? Say they coughed to one side or downwards, are they choking, coughing or what ?

The biggest problem would be any increase in punishment would need to apply to any coughing offence directed at anyone. Punching a police officer is an assault as is thumping a schoolteacher, it can't be one law for one etc.
Personally I think punishment's for assaults should be increased across the board anyway and not just for deliberate coughing at someone.

Quite possibly a proved case of "coughing at" which caused illness, whether or not the victim dies, could be argued as GBH or similar, not just assault.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

I can see Pratty Patel running into all sorts of problems if she persists in moving forward with any ideas of increasing sentencing just for coughing, there's so many if's & but's I don't know where to start.

If a cop has to struggle to apprehend a villain that could well involve a headlock or some similar kind of restraint, in turn that person may well find themselves choking & spluttering for breath, would that constitute a deliberate coughing assault ?
If that person coughs into the face of an officer that would be deliberate (maybe) but if they coughed away from the officers face would that still be a deliberate attempt to harm ? Say they coughed to one side or downwards, are they choking, coughing or what ?

The biggest problem would be any increase in punishment would need to apply to any coughing offence directed at anyone. Punching a police officer is an assault as is thumping a schoolteacher, it can't be one law for one etc.
Personally I think punishment's for assaults should be increased across the board anyway and not just for deliberate coughing at someone.

It’s all smoke, mirrors, window dressin’ and BS from Fat Arse Patel. Plenty of laws already exist to deal with this assaults and if accompanying evidence of a deliberate cough which is intended to infect, or cause the other person to believe they will become infected with Coronavirus, is presented to a court, they can sentence appropriately. This doesn’t need a new law from Fat Arse.

 

[Danidl]

Quite possibly a proved case of "coughing at" which caused illness, whether or not the victim dies, could be argued as GBH or similar, not just assault.

Sometime just after March 13 ,our Minister for Health walking near his office in Dublin was exactly that.. a guy in his late 30 s or early 40s runs up to him coughs into his face and runs back to his giggling girlfriend. Unfortunately not arrested.

 

[RossG]

I've seen several reported cases of individuals getting nicked for gobbing at people various, sentences seem to vary quite a bit depending on how nasty a piece of work the assailant is.

 

[RossG]

It's made all the worse by the fact that sometimes these people are just nutcases.

 

[Danidl]

But they aren't commuters in the widely accepted sense Danidl.

It's a nonsense to take it to such extremes, opening it to my doing it with the other extremes. Such as my neighbour who car commutes 40 miles each way to Brighton, those many like myself who often commuted to different destinations each day, often distant and even abroad, the numerous London businessman who commute to work from London City Airport and Heathrow to Europe, the USA, China and many other places worldwide. They would soon make a mess of the 9.1 miles claim.

With 70 of my 84 years in London, I know this subject far better than the link sources, which are obviously based upon guestimations made from various other estimations and sometimes deliberately biased to fit the need.

I'm frankly surprised you persisted with this since it says little about the scientific rigour you profess to have. What are the parameters for these claimed averages? What are the sources for the average information?
.

Funny you should say that, my brother in Ascot , picked that location as he was traveling transcontinental ,about once or twice a week as troubshooter for a major oil company. He was telling me that he was putting in more high altitude travel than airline pilots were legally allowed!.
However commuter has the generally accepted term as distance from home to habitual place of work..indeed the civil service and revenue uses that definition for calculating milage allowences. So yes, I would happily include your Brighton neighbours, whereas unless they were doing it more than 3times a week and had no London bases, not your globetrotting business men.
I fully appreciate your superior knowledge ..

 

[Danidl]

I've seen several reported cases of individuals getting nicked for gobbing at people various, sentences seem to vary quite a bit depending on how nasty a piece of work the assailant is.

Well our courts are taking it extremely seriously, and it doesn't require additional legislation. People have been sentenced. Our police have been supplied with spitting hoods, for use on arrested people. The civil liberties people don't like them, but there is no public support for that stance.

 

[Danidl]

Well Pres. Trump will surely have met his campaign promise regarding a Wall keeping out the Mexicans. Why would anyone cross a barrier, even a line in the sand, if it means entering an infectious zone with 100 times the infection rate, per head ?. Who knew (except himself) he could be so clever!.