We aim to please, ..but often miss.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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You can’t really compare 5G and WiFi (6 to be fair) with what you might consider today’s local Wi-Fi, your current thinking about data cost just doesn’t apply, on site computering is minimal so your shipping your data to cloud-based service anyway so the cost of transportation of that data is an integral part of the cost model.
There is of course development in Wi-Fi technology which runs hand-in-hand with 5G Development and the two technologies will complement but imo cell segregation and network slicing Will offer significant advantages to IOT devices, these devices will become essential and integral parts of manufacturing and even domestic devices. If you look at collision report models between 5G and Wi-Fi six there are reasonably clear indications that 5G will offer benefits large enough to make a difference. A fairly fundamental issue is spectrum protection and it’s effect on latency. Cell mobility and authentication will only be served successfully by 5g and that matters, It particularly matters with microcell topography.
As with all these things you have to take a little bit of a guess at the requirement as we don’t know how the global markets will develop but IOT devices are projected to hit 76 billion devices within five years. 5G is not simply faster 4G.
Of course none of this will be delivered from day one and I suspect initially 5G to most public users will only deliver what 4G long-term evolution promised. But that the way it always goes.
The following Humorous comment is for those capable of that affliction
All we need now is the
"Chip in the Skull" we prophesied back in the 1970, in the "Home of the Future" think tank, And Voila!
Priti Patel has her 8 million Cyber persons desperate to get to work'
Automation automatically made redundant by automated work force.
And they will all, like good Brexiteers, think this is what they voted for
And work for sweet nothing as and when required
And when no longer required individuals can be switched off
Permanently
Our problem is we live in a time of progress
We just haven't a clue where to or why.
And in the meantime refine the process of destroying the planet for gain
It’s easy, we need to automate production and distribution of everything and make things cheaper so that everyone can buy anything and everything.
Once everyone has got everything we can just invent new things for everyone to buy.
The only flaw i can see in this is where will the money come from, so that everyone can afford to buy these things.
Once everyone has got everything we can just invent new things for everyone to buy.
The only flaw i can see in this is where will the money come from, so that everyone can afford to buy these things.
As regards cost, at present the networks are charging the same for 5G as 4G/3G. Obviously we don't know what the cost of a 5G-only connection on a commercial contract would be but I based my comment on what I can see - which is domestic tariffs. Just because it has the capacity doesn't mean they will charge less!
A major problem with wholly off-site is resilience. Are they really going to be implementing a whole manufacturing system that will grind to a halt if 5G stops working? Especially when 5G is still so new.
Our environment secretary has announced:
House coal and wet wood to be phased out by 2023 to cut pollution
Really don't know how they will police it?
Re manufactured solid fuel, nothing I have ever had to burn in a fire/stove has ever had such a disgustingly strong sulphurous fume emission as Phurnacite.
I had just see two-tonne deliveries with a scrap of wet paper advising how to dry it all out.
(Mind, round here, the smokey stink when people light their fires/stoves has been horrible. And there do seem to be a lot of them. So part of me is happy.)
House coal and wet wood to be phased out by 2023 to cut pollution
Really don't know how they will police it?
Re manufactured solid fuel, nothing I have ever had to burn in a fire/stove has ever had such a disgustingly strong sulphurous fume emission as Phurnacite.
I had just see two-tonne deliveries with a scrap of wet paper advising how to dry it all out.
(Mind, round here, the smokey stink when people light their fires/stoves has been horrible. And there do seem to be a lot of them. So part of me is happy.)
Not a problem as the system isn't intended to benefit the underclass it will generate.
This problem was foreseen many many years ago, and the answer hasn't changed.
The ideal answer is to use the profits to promote a decent lifestyle for those not privileged and required to work, in the arts, sciences, social support, further education , and sporting activities.
The actual remedy adopted will be to neglect them and let them live short poor quality lives, as seen in the economies already more automated than ours
When the choice was made way back in the 70's between automation and investing in countries where virtually slave labour was available, our Investors chose the latter, rathr than take the risky path of investing in automation they really didn't understand anyway.
This time if the decide to go for automation, we face a virtual certainty of unrest in the underclass.
You would think they could foresee this happening
They don't.
it's a bit like the origin of the universe, at the very beginning, there were only very small differences in density in the early universe. As the universe expands, these fifferences grow into hundreds of billion galaxies.
You spend more, the banks will invent new ways to lend you more, typically by relying on local estate agents increasing their valuation of your house.That in turn attracts people to your area, validating those valuations. High property price pushes up rent, high rent pushes up wages, high wages attract more workers, causing a shortage of houses which legitimates the original exaggerated valuation. Soon, the BoE will repurchase useless interbank IOUs and issue more money. Everyone is happy doing not much for fear of contributing to climate change, leaving the production role to the Chinese.
My friend came round last night and I showed him the video where Priti Patel made a public fool of herself over her not comprehending that there is no such thing as a "Counter Terrorism offence"
His reaction was he thought that a disgruntled Civil Servant has written her speech to make her look a fool in public.
My reaction was that this "Cunning plan" failed because the audience in the main either ignored the import of the words she came out with, or were no wiser than she was.
There is of course a sort of insane Comedy Noir to this woman
She demands that immigrants can "Speak English"
And while she can speak it with some Elan
Doesn't understand what the hell she is talking about.
I remember a rather funny notice I saw way back many years ago in a Parisien Cafe
"English Spoken
American Understood"
His reaction was he thought that a disgruntled Civil Servant has written her speech to make her look a fool in public.
My reaction was that this "Cunning plan" failed because the audience in the main either ignored the import of the words she came out with, or were no wiser than she was.
There is of course a sort of insane Comedy Noir to this woman
She demands that immigrants can "Speak English"
And while she can speak it with some Elan
Doesn't understand what the hell she is talking about.
I remember a rather funny notice I saw way back many years ago in a Parisien Cafe
"English Spoken
American Understood"
Well Grasshopper, think of it this way
"A Chicken is just an Egg's way
of reproducing itself"
But Master
"Why does the Egg desire to be a Chicken and not a Dragon?"
Well Grasshopper
"You haven't quite grasped this Capitalist thing have you?"
Omm...Ommm
You need to think outside of the concept of public access subscriber usage, that type of use, albeit important is just a part of the revenue and plan for the business.
In terms of offsite processing, that is how it is. For right or wrong, very few places that finally assemble a product actually take raw materials in at one end and produce goods at the other, the logistics required depend upon distributed processing within the supply chain. The days of a company using a self maintained mainframe controlling its processes are going if not gone. I’m not trying to sell 5G here and have no financial interest in its success but the topography and function of a 5G network is different to the old concept of base stations connected to a switch and a few switches connected together serving people watching kitten videos on their iPhone, of course I’m not stupid enough to imagine that watching kitten videos on an iPhone isn’t a huge part of the likely usage
Failures happen and having distributed processing is fundamentally more resilient although I admit there have and will continue to be catastrophes. BCP is the responsibility of the service user and often a very marketable skill, If I were ever to be forced out of retirement I wouldn’t be going picking fruit! Whilst it used to be a tick on a spreadsheet presented to a quality assessor, nowadays it’s taken a little more seriously.
The Americans are rightly concerned over who provides this system, for the more we rely on it the bigger disaster after it is attacked.You need to think outside of the concept of public access subscriber usage, that type of use, albeit important is just a part of the revenue and plan for the business.
In terms of offsite processing, that is how it is. For right or wrong, very few places that finally assemble a product actually take raw materials in at one end and produce goods at the other, the logistics required depend upon distributed processing within the supply chain. The days of a company using a self maintained mainframe controlling its processes are going if not gone. I’m not trying to sell 5G here and have no financial interest in its success but the topography and function of a 5G network is different to the old concept of base stations connected to a switch and a few switches connected together serving people watching kitten videos on their iPhone, of course I’m not stupid enough to imagine that watching kitten videos on an iPhone isn’t a huge part of the likely usage
Failures happen and having distributed processing is fundamentally more resilient although I admit there have and will continue to be catastrophes. BCP is the responsibility of the service user and often a very marketable skill, If I were ever to be forced out of retirement I wouldn’t be going picking fruit! Whilst it used to be a tick on a spreadsheet presented to a quality assessor, nowadays it’s taken a little more seriously.
This system should originate in this country on local equipment and soft and firmware and firewall under local control, or we may as well surrender without a shot being fired in the event of any dispute with the supplier of the system
The Americans are concerned, their reasons for being concerned are probably debatable. Securing any data network is a challenge and in my own personal opinion the risk includes existing infrastructure that was developed before we suddenly became enlightened. However the risk is more related to what is interconnected and bears very little relationship to who by or where it’s manufactured and engineered.
Your second point though is quite amusing
The Chinese offerings let you run your own software on their supplied hardware, that does not stop them embed spy stuff but they are more open compared to their competitors.
No I disagree, I think OG is probably onto something here, I think taking back control of our borders ... sorry firewalls, is a good idea and he should contact Nigel and get him to set up the Brexit 5G party
On a more serious note this time last year ( or year before, can’t be bothered to google it to remind my feeble memory) it was being reported that Motorola were to acquire Huawei. How things change when it suits the political climate.
Yes you can embed holes into the hardware, yes it’s a risk, yes it would need to be managed but I think that is a very small part of the overall security problem. I reckon human beings, their weaknesses and in some cases their ideals create actions that are the biggest risk.
There is also an element of being left behind, I suppose there would be those that would argue that we don’t need to be pushing the boundaries, but maybe if we are to be the best that we can be we don’t have time to develop and set up our own infrastructure manufacturing for 5G. Let’s face it the available alternate would not be home grown and picked British produce.
Open Source 5G - let us all have a go...
(Not in any way criticising open source software. Just imagining what people might do if all of it were open for inspection and modification.)
It almost is .....
Obviously I’m not talking about the embedded control and signalling functions which frankly only the manufacturer should have control over, but the bit that applications talk to is pretty much open source. Nokia are pushing their API , and whilst I’m sure non-disclosure agreements would be comprehensive they say about their application interface, The 3GPP-compliant 5G Nokia Network Exposure Function (NEF) achieves this by exposing third-party open Application Programming Interfaces (APIs) to other applications.
But if they only expose the API, who knows what they are hiding below that?
I was thinking, slightly more seriously, the software should all be open so it can be inspected and reviewed. But of course it should be impossible for those outside the manufacturer/operator to do anything to change it.
(Manufacturer alone having access is simply not acceptable. Imagine Huawei being in control and, for whatever reason, refusing to co-operate.)