Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
The Americans are rightly concerned over who provides this system, for the more we rely on it the bigger disaster after it is attacked.
This system should originate in this country on local equipment and soft and firmware and firewall under local control, or we may as well surrender without a shot being fired in the event of any dispute with the supplier of the system
The way I see that is a potential adversary having a kill switch, . Say shorting out addressing on command.. This can be sent to billions of devices simultaneously, thus stopping communications for the time until these chips are replaced . This might take a number of hours to figure out a problem and a number of days repairing.. ample time for the sewers to burst and the Army in place.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oldgroaner

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
The Russian gas pipeline seemed to have been the subject of such attacks, and of course the famous Iranian centrifuges incident shows what can be done with even the present localised systems.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oyster

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
It’s easy, we need to automate production and distribution of everything and make things cheaper so that everyone can buy anything and everything.

Once everyone has got everything we can just invent new things for everyone to buy.

The only flaw i can see in this is where will the money come from, so that everyone can afford to buy these things.
Their bodies as replacement spare parts?
 

gw8izr

Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
224
240
But if they only expose the API, who knows what they are hiding below that?

I was thinking, slightly more seriously, the software should all be open so it can be inspected and reviewed. But of course it should be impossible for those outside the manufacturer/operator to do anything to change it.

(Manufacturer alone having access is simply not acceptable. Imagine Huawei being in control and, for whatever reason, refusing to co-operate.)
There is already an element of that and manufacturers regularly show how they meet the international standards but seriously .. lets make everything open source? well it would help us speed up development of the Brexit 5g network...

:cool:
 

gw8izr

Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
224
240
The way I see that is a potential adversary having a kill switch, . Say shorting out addressing on command.. This can be sent to billions of devices simultaneously, thus stopping communications for the time until these chips are replaced . This might take a number of hours to figure out a problem and a number of days repairing.. ample time for the sewers to burst and the Army in place.
Do you believe that any particular manufacturer of such network equipment is more vulnerable to attack than any other?
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Once I've done with mine it won't be much use to anyone, might pay for a top up on my PAYG 5g phone :)
Mine went down past that value ten years ago, but then as they say if I'd known I was going to live this long
AAnd I had known the danger I was put in, I wouldn't have gone to work for a company where I sat to take a morning break on piles of Asbestos in a Cast Iron Foundry after wiping muck and grease off my hands in the Carbon Tetrachloride degreaser tank we sat next to.
For some odd reason the others never made it to retire.
Strange that, we were told the problem was the heat, noise and the black sand in the air.
Nobody mentioned the Asbestos or the Carbon Tet to us.
We only learned about that when one year the Health and Safety people came in, closed the factory for a month and when we came back, no more Asbestos and open degreaser tanks.
This is one of the reasons I prefer the EU, they don't regard it fashionable to kill off your workforce in pursuit of a profit
 
  • Like
Reactions: jonathan.agnew

gw8izr

Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
224
240
Mine went down past that value ten years ago, but then as they say if I'd known I was going to live this long
AAnd I had known the danger I was put in, I wouldn't have gone to work for a company where I sat to take a morning break on piles of Asbestos in a Cast Iron Foundry after wiping muck and grease off my hands in the Carbon Tetrachloride degreaser tank we sat next to.
For some odd reason the others never made it to retire.
Strange that, we were told the problem was the heat, noise and the black sand in the air.
Nobody mentioned the Asbestos or the Carbon Tet to us.
We only learned about that when one year the Health and Safety people came in, closed the factory for a month and when we came back, no more Asbestos and open degreaser tanks.
This is one of the reasons I prefer the EU, they don't regard it fashionable to kill off your workforce in pursuit of a profit
Yes its interesting how things work out, I recall drilling locomotive roofs and spitting the dust out of my mouth.. asbestos insulation. I also remember it was acceptable practice to use CTC to wash tar residue of our hands after jointing cables. A relative has just had his lung lining removed after detecting asbestosis, he worked in the motor trade. Now in some cases the risks were known but often ignored but today the individual cannot just choose to ignore the warnings 'to get the job done' I always used the thought process when planning work for others that no one goes to work to get hurt.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Fun Poll in the Express
Question : Do you think the EU will collapse without UK Budget Contributions
79% say yes
18% say no
3% say Don't know
 
  • :D
Reactions: Woosh and flecc

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
Mine went down past that value ten years ago, but then as they say if I'd known I was going to live this long
AAnd I had known the danger I was put in, I wouldn't have gone to work for a company where I sat to take a morning break on piles of Asbestos in a Cast Iron Foundry after wiping muck and grease off my hands in the Carbon Tetrachloride degreaser tank we sat next to.
For some odd reason the others never made it to retire.
Strange that, we were told the problem was the heat, noise and the black sand in the air.
Nobody mentioned the Asbestos or the Carbon Tet to us.
We only learned about that when one year the Health and Safety people came in, closed the factory for a month and when we came back, no more Asbestos and open degreaser tanks.
This is one of the reasons I prefer the EU, they don't regard it fashionable to kill off your workforce in pursuit of a profit
Put differently, nothing beats sitting in a snatch rover in amara for realising how little the uk Gov cares
 
  • :D
Reactions: oldgroaner

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
Yes its interesting how things work out, I recall drilling locomotive roofs and spitting the dust out of my mouth.. asbestos insulation. I also remember it was acceptable practice to use CTC to wash tar residue of our hands after jointing cables. A relative has just had his lung lining removed after detecting asbestosis, he worked in the motor trade. Now in some cases the risks were known but often ignored but today the individual cannot just choose to ignore the warnings 'to get the job done' I always used the thought process when planning work for others that no one goes to work to get hurt.
Although brake pads are still very dodgy (when I see the local garage clean brakes with an air hose I wonder how much has changed)
 

gw8izr

Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
224
240
Although brake pads are still very dodgy (when I see the local garage clean brakes with an air hose I wonder how much has changed)
The thing is the information is out there and anyone who blows dust out of a brake drum (or clutch housing) isn't able to say they don't know its wrong. Don't care maybe and not worried about potential prosecution as they are unlikely to be found out...

(edit) so I agree, my post was incorrect, people still can choose to act unsafely
 
  • Agree
Reactions: jonathan.agnew

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,163
30,580
Yes its interesting how things work out, I recall drilling locomotive roofs and spitting the dust out of my mouth.. asbestos insulation. I also remember it was acceptable practice to use CTC to wash tar residue of our hands after jointing cables. A relative has just had his lung lining removed after detecting asbestosis, he worked in the motor trade. Now in some cases the risks were known but often ignored but today the individual cannot just choose to ignore the warnings 'to get the job done' I always used the thought process when planning work for others that no one goes to work to get hurt.
There's so much variation between people where such risks are concerned. As a youngster through the 1940s I was very much into making things but wood was in short supply with it being needed so much in the war effort. But sheet asbestos was quite plentiful for some reason so I often used that. There was a little safety advice, namely wet the path of the saw cut with water, but because that tended to clog the saw I never did to get faster cuts. And then I joined the motor trade as an apprentice mechanic and never took and precautions against brake dust, and I've even used sheet asbestos more recently a number of times in DIY.

Yet despite all that exposure I'm still ok far into old age, while others seem to suffer after minimal exposure. Maybe my 40 years of smoking from the age of 11 with the latter 15 years at a minimum of 60 cigarettes a day has protected me!
.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Do you believe that any particular manufacturer of such network equipment is more vulnerable to attack than any other?
Yes obviously. Any with close links with a military partner. The actual activation chip could be a small as a grain of rice.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Fun Poll in the Express
Question : Do you think the EU will collapse without UK Budget Contributions
79% say yes
18% say no
3% say Don't know
Does anyone realise how little these contributions actually are? .. they are at 1% and to compensate the system for the UK s lack , they go up by 0.1% .. excluding of course the enrolment dues the UK may need to pay for access.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Yes obviously. Any with close links with a military partner. The actual activation chip could be a small as a grain of rice.
Am I paranoid?

Just why compare to a grain of rice? Could it be that there is an intentional attempt to point a finger at rice growers? That is, China. (Not by you, Danidl, it has many times been used.)

Rice:
The edible seed is a grain (caryopsis) 5–12 mm long and 2–3 mm thick. And weighs around 15/20/30 milligrams depending on source!

So, in round figures, a quarter to a half a grain. Why not write in terms of the traditional barley grain of pharmaceutical measures?
 
  • :D
Reactions: flecc and gw8izr

gw8izr

Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
224
240
Why.. my background would have been in hardware, and I am suggesting that it will be virtually undetectable,whether within or unerneath a chip.
Well if I had to go up against an adversary I'd rather go up against one that did it that way.

Anyway, I suspect neither of us really need be concerned about that kind of attack.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Am I paranoid?

Just why compare to a grain of rice? Could it be that there is an intentional attempt to point a finger at rice growers? That is, China. (Not by you, Danidl, it has many times been used.)

Rice:
The edible seed is a grain (caryopsis) 5–12 mm long and 2–3 mm thick. And weighs around 15/20/30 milligrams depending on source!

So, in round figures, a quarter to a half a grain. Why not write in terms of the traditional barley grain of pharmaceutical measures?
Good question.. but I tend to eat rice in grains, whereas the other cereals are fully ground up before I see them.
1
 
  • Like
Reactions: oyster

Advertisers