the decision to continue with the pregnancy rests with their mothers, not the state.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Theres a rather beautiful movie on 4 by tarkovskis (solaris), it came to mind in your description of waiting, being in a moment, it's worth watching
But at 98% because of common practice. You only think the mothers are deciding, when in truth it's that common practice that has decided.
It was my way of illustrating that old style eugenics is still being practiced in the West, without even being mentioned by OG and JA.
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Nearly all meanings have changed over time as I've shown, and that Wikipedia definition is far too narrow in consequence.
That some such as China have not changed does not mean that all other interpretations are incorrect.
There is a difference between elimination of whole groups for social reasons and the medical use of eugenics to eliminate suffering, and it is not impossible to define that difference.
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From the Irish Times ...
"Irish exports exceeded €152.5 billion last year, the highest total on record.
New figures from the Central Statistics Office show exports jumped by 8 per cent or €11.9 million versus the €140.5 million reported in 2018.
Medical and pharma goods accounted for a third of all exports recorded at €49.6 billion, up €3.45 billion or 7 per cent on the previous year.
Exports were up despite a €200 million decline in December to €11.6 billion. This was primarily due to a €1 billion fall in exports of aircraft. This was partly offset by rises in exports of electrical machinery, which rose 54 per cent to €851 million.
Imports increased by 3 per cent last year to €89.2 billion versus €92 billion in 2018. In November, the value of goods imported rose by 4 per cent to €12.6 billion.
The European Union accounted for 48 per cent of all exports in 2019, rising 3 per cent to €72.6 billion compared to the previous year. Some 69 per cent of imports came from the EU.
Exports to Britain fell by 4 per cent to €13.5 billion last year while imports rose 3 per cent to €18.7 billion leaving a €5.2 billion trade deficit.".
My comments
... The 4% is probably related to drops in sterling values over that period.
These figures if anything indicate how little the UK market affects Ireland's overall exports. However it does hide the fact that a lot of UK Ireland trade is in food stuffs ,produced by small enterprises. It will be interesting to see the figures for 2021, after one year of Brexit lite and the figures for 2022 after one year of full fat Brexit.
"Irish exports exceeded €152.5 billion last year, the highest total on record.
New figures from the Central Statistics Office show exports jumped by 8 per cent or €11.9 million versus the €140.5 million reported in 2018.
Medical and pharma goods accounted for a third of all exports recorded at €49.6 billion, up €3.45 billion or 7 per cent on the previous year.
Exports were up despite a €200 million decline in December to €11.6 billion. This was primarily due to a €1 billion fall in exports of aircraft. This was partly offset by rises in exports of electrical machinery, which rose 54 per cent to €851 million.
Imports increased by 3 per cent last year to €89.2 billion versus €92 billion in 2018. In November, the value of goods imported rose by 4 per cent to €12.6 billion.
The European Union accounted for 48 per cent of all exports in 2019, rising 3 per cent to €72.6 billion compared to the previous year. Some 69 per cent of imports came from the EU.
Exports to Britain fell by 4 per cent to €13.5 billion last year while imports rose 3 per cent to €18.7 billion leaving a €5.2 billion trade deficit.".
My comments
... The 4% is probably related to drops in sterling values over that period.
These figures if anything indicate how little the UK market affects Ireland's overall exports. However it does hide the fact that a lot of UK Ireland trade is in food stuffs ,produced by small enterprises. It will be interesting to see the figures for 2021, after one year of Brexit lite and the figures for 2022 after one year of full fat Brexit.
That is an extraordinary figure, it's almost three times the UK rate, pro rata to our populations.
One for Ireland to be proud of and comparing with the best of the EU's countries.
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I don't think so. The mothers' decision are usually based on individuals' circumstances, IVF, age, religious and political beliefs, family, their husbands' beliefs and wealth.
When you look at eugenics, it becomes political, some dictator (elected or not) decides instead.
My nephew was lucky to be born to a relatively wealthy family so his parents weren't forced into that decision by practical considerations.
Mother should never have carried me, she suffered from many health problems, the worst of which was pernicious anaemia, and the doctor was called as she struggled to give birth to me.
Fortunately for me my formidable Aunt Phylis was present and the Doctor asked her "Which one should I save?"
Which I remember Father remarking once on this many years later as being an incredibly brave thing for him to do.
Dear Aunt Phylis rounded on the unfortunate doctor and said in her best "make my day"voice
"You will save them both or you'll answer to me!"
The Doctor fortunately was successful, which was lucky for him too!
So perhaps I can be forgiven for not being a big fan of Eugenics?
it's easy to look only at the numbers and forget the individuals when it's not your family.
Quality of life is a very subjective, difficult thing to define. A few years ago I developed a rare form of dishidrotic eczema (pompholyx) that made it impossible to walk for a year. Fortunately I got better. But I enjoy and appreciate walking and many other simple activities by virtue of this in ways I never have. Often pleasure is with reference to pain.
Sadly, despite the ready availability and cheapness of cobalamin injections, there are still many who suffer from pernicious anaemia. (And many doctors who tell people to consume more iron.)
And Health Secretaries who have not one tiny bit of a clue:
Sir, Matt Hancock, the health secretary, is to be commended for his pledge to introduce a more “intelligent and personalised” approach as a major new element of public health (“Hancock hails health prevention based on your class and location”, Nov 5). Preventive medicine is a much-needed investment in the future health of the UK population that should, over time, ease the financial burden to the NHS in relation to chronic diseases. However, advising people with vitamin B12 deficiency to eat broccoli to prevent dementia would fail because there is no vitamin B12 in broccoli — it is found only in meat and fortified foods.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tailor-made-healthcare-and-lifestyle-advice-fpcks7c38
In reference to Cummins-Johnson, ...
"I didn't get where I am today by ..."
"I didn't get where I am today by ..."
I have to disagree. If it was very unusual to terminate a Downs pregancy, far fewer would do so. The fact that almost all are terminated and on the whole the medical profession and society consider that a benefit makes considering it not just an easy option but normal.
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I don't know what you are all fretting about. If we and the rest of the world don't do something drastic PDQ about climate change, we are all going to drown or starve to death anyway.
It won't just be eugenics, it will be all-of-our-genics.
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most parents are forced to take the termination because they can't get the support they would need bringing up a child with Downs.
They need permanent care, you can't let them out of your sight, so one parent would carry on working while the other becomes 24x7 carer - or both will have to work from home and they need a higher level of income than the average to cope with the extra expenses. Then the child will need future funding when the parents are too old to look after them.
there is progress in medical science, whether muscular dystrophy or cancers, we don't have to opt for termination.
Old people on the other hand...
None of which alters what I've posted. It was the very early acceptance of the norm of termination that lead to the lack of support. If that acceptance had not been there, the social and financial support would have been there, as it is for so many other disabilities.
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Lets hope that next generation evolved Humans v2.0 show some compassion to Humans v1.0...
A sci-fi author, I can't recall, wondered what if if higher functuioning autistic / Asberger's Syndrome folk are possibly more evolved humans and we know what happened to all the other homo species. Wouldn't surprise me if Cummings is Asbergers...
And for Down's folk having worked in the care field and rather then viewing them soley for any intellectual developmental / deficiencies they bring a lot of love and unconditional affection to the world - sorely missed if they were some how eradicated. :-( I still remember vividly them get distressed as we watched a soap episode dealing with issues / abortion of Downs and it was like being with Jews and if it was the holocaust on the box instead.
My friend Alan out and about, and he lived to a good ripe age...
Alan’s posthumous award for selfless dedication in Rowhedge
