Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Whichever way you look at it,
The only logical thing to do is be honest with the Public
Cancel Article 50, or ask for an extension to renegotiate a deal or put May's deal to a referendum

I believe that a referendum is only justified if it does not ask exactly the same question, therefore it should only take place after parliament approves a deal. Until then, it's parliament's job to deliver a deal.
It will then be a simple question, that deal or no deal or remain.
Unfortunately, the majority of conservatives don't want a deal, so Bojo should be removed and replaced by someone who wants a deal, then parliament can finish the job in hand, then the final decision may be returned to the people.
That's why I approve JC's strategy albeit not clearly explained to the voters.

 

[50Hertz]

Prince Ginger is at it again. #gingertwat.

 

[50Hertz]

I believe that a referendum is only justified if it does not ask exactly the same question, therefore it should only take place after parliament approves a deal. Until then, it's parliament's job to deliver a deal.
It will then be a simple question, that deal or no deal or remain.
Unfortunately, the majority of conservatives don't want a deal, so Bojo should be removed and replaced by someone who wants a deal, then parliament can finish the job in hand, then the final decision may be returned to the people.
That's why I approve JC's strategy albeit not clearly explained to the voters.

That question is unfair because it splits the leave vote in two. Remain will win, and the discontent will continue.

The question should be a simple one of Leave (even if that means no deal and all of the consequences that we now understand) or to Remain.

I don’t think anyone could argue with that. We are much better placed as a nation to make the decision now. As I’ve said before, if leave wins again, I’d be happy for them get on with it, to see tens of thousands lose their jobs, homes, families and dreams. It wouldn’t bother me for a minute. If they were still that stupid after all that has taken place, they are beyond help and deserve everything they get.

 

[Fingers]

there may be some truth in that.
Bojo wants to push for no deal because there simply isn't a good deal available.
it is the only way for the conservatives to leave because no deal brexit nullifies their promises to brexit voters.

That's one thing I do agree in with the conservatives

No deal is better than a bad deal.

I think we make take a hit short term but once businesses inside the EU actually realise it will hit them in the pocket they won't give a **** about the 'project' they will say make a deal now. Our produce is rotting.

The EU may do what trump has done and give them subsidies. But that would be illegal under WTO.

And by short term I mean 3 months

 

[Fingers]

Prince Ginger is at it again. #gingertwat.

Most annoying noise in the country

 

[Danidl]

That's one thing I do agree in with the conservatives

No deal is better than a bad deal.

I think we make take a hit short term but once businesses inside the EU actually realise it will hit them in the pocket they won't give a **** about the 'project' they will say make a deal now. Our produce is rotting.

The EU may do what trump has done and give them subsidies. But that would be illegal under WTO.

And by short term I mean 3 months

And that works both ways. The tentative deal which we expect BJ to unveil today is a Bad Deal for Ireland ,and worse than Crashout. It will hurt us as our supplies of Ovaltine run out, but we will have plenty of cheddar cheese, beef ,duck, mushrooms potatoes etc . We don't need Walkers Crisps when we have Mr Tayto .(ask your wife)

There was a program on RTE last night decribing the chaos which will arise,and the difficulty of getting our goods into Europe. The journey was the Dublin Liverpool then Dover and Calais into Brussels. What was surprising was that actually traveling direct to Le Havre or Cherbourg was only about 2 to 3 hours more. ..and the truck driver was off the tachometer for longer. If the transport ferries were pushed, they could even reduce that by a couple of hours. I understand that a number of French ports close down in the early hours at present.
The key point however was that the clerical staff do not exist in Ireland to handle traffic coming from UK,a third country ,into the EU. We have full employment and the 20,000 , between official Customs and private sector clearance is not available. So the obvious conclusion is just ban it.

 

[Woosh]

That question is unfair because it splits the leave vote in two. Remain will win, and the discontent will continue.

rules can be made to make the choice fair.
for example: tick first and second preferences or two rounds.

 

[Wicky]

BJ promising mini nuclear fusion reactors

be ignored text

bigot extender

being extorted

Brie detox gent

be gritted oxen

gin be extorted

beg inert detox

bent exited org

greet bed toxin

Mugs...

 

[oyster]

So what is this Project Fear?

Top Conservative says he fears riots if UK fails to leave EU
James Cleverly makes comments on Today programme despite Labour fears of inflaming tensions

 

[50Hertz]

That's one thing I do agree in with the conservatives

No deal is better than a bad deal.

I think we make take a hit short term but once businesses inside the EU actually realise it will hit them in the pocket they won't give a **** about the 'project' they will say make a deal now. Our produce is rotting.

The EU may do what trump has done and give them subsidies. But that would be illegal under WTO.

And by short term I mean 3 months

The big problem is that Boris Johnson promised you frictionless trade, definitely no borders on the island of Ireland to the extent that the Irish people would notice no differences and an easy trade deal. His proposal drives a coach and horses through all of the promises he made to you. How did he manage to manipulate you into accepting his lies?

 

[oyster]

The big problem is that Boris Johnson promised you frictionless trade, definitely no borders on the island of Ireland to the extent that the Irish people would notice no differences and an easy trade deal. His proposal drives a coach and horses through all of the promises he made to you. How did he manage to manipulate you into accepting his lies?

I really don't understand those who have enabled him to be in the position he is by supporting him.

Eddie Mair was spot on.

 

[50Hertz]

I really don't understand those who have enabled him to be in the position he is by supporting him.

Eddie Mair was spot on.

I know. Those promises of frictionless trade and no border were made recently too. Now we have the proposal of not one, but two borders.

People are either massively stupid on a scale that I never considered possible, or Johnson is the master of lies and deception. Neither option is anything to be proud of, but I’m inclined to believe the massively stupid option. There is a tonne of evidence to support the idea that people are being treated with contempt, but still they make excuses for Johnson and are eager believe the next lie, just hours after the previous one is exposed.

 

[Danidl]

I know. Those promises of frictionless trade and no border were made recently too. Now we have the proposal of not one, but two borders.

People are either massively stupid on a scale that I never considered possible, or Johnson is the master of lies and deception. Neither option is anything to be proud of, but I’m inclined to believe the massively stupid option. There is a tonne of evidence to support the idea that people are being treated with contempt, but still they make excuses for Johnson and are eager believe the next lie, just hours after the previous one is exposed.

The only logical inference is that he has no expectation of it being acceptable, but can now play a victim card.

 

[50Hertz]

The only logical inference is that he has no expectation of it being acceptable, but can now play a victim card.

It’s why people cling onto the hope that Johnson will deliver them something good that baffles me. All of the lying, failure to adhere to promises and general conduct wouldn’t be necessary if that was going to happen. He’s lying for a reason and the reason is because he’s leading a lot of people down a route that is only going to benefit a small wealthy minority.

In the recent past, just one small aspect of Johnson’s behaviour would have filled the newspaper pages for a month and seen him grilled at every opportunity. He’s now normalised the outrageous. No sooner does one unthinkable act of appalling behaviour from a PM hit the news, before it is overtaken by something even more outrageous. There is no time digest the gravity and implications of each element of his behaviour. It’s rapid fire and it all blends into one surreal experience.

Maybe we should just crash out of the EU and have done with it.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

I know. Those promises of frictionless trade and no border were made recently too. Now we have the proposal of not one, but two borders.

People are either massively stupid on a scale that I never considered possible, or Johnson is the master of lies and deception. Neither option is anything to be proud of, but I’m inclined to believe the massively stupid option. There is a tonne of evidence to support the idea that people are being treated with contempt, but still they make excuses for Johnson and are eager believe the next lie, just hours after the previous one is exposed.

I'm at work, overhearing a conversation between two associates who support brexit. Both are otherwise intelligent reflective people. I dont really understand it as a phenomenon. Lemmings come to mind. Or rabbits in headlights. Either way I can see that they will have to learn through experience. It seems a bizarre extreme combination of cognitive dissonance and denial that can only be resolved by urinating on the terminals until the shock shakes 18 million out of a very thick stupor. It will take a hard brexit I think.

 

[oldgroaner]

That's one thing I do agree in with the conservatives

No deal is better than a bad deal.

I think we make take a hit short term but once businesses inside the EU actually realise it will hit them in the pocket they won't give a **** about the 'project' they will say make a deal now. Our produce is rotting.

The EU may do what trump has done and give them subsidies. But that would be illegal under WTO.

And by short term I mean 3 months

You are still kidding yourself

 

[Woosh]

Bojo proposes that Northern Ireland should stay in the European single market for goods, but leave the customs union - resulting in new customs checks.
The Northern Ireland Assembly would get to approve the arrangements first and vote every four years on keeping them.
I think that's positive.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here's the four page letter
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/836115/PM_letter_to_Juncker_WEB.pdf
Here's the explanatory notes of Boris's offer to the EU
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/836030/Explanatory_Note.pdf

The DUP seem to have agreed to something they haven't read. or more likely understand after being promised more cash?

 

[oldgroaner]

Bojo proposes that Northern Ireland should stay in the European single market for goods, but leave the customs union - resulting in new customs checks.
The Northern Ireland Assembly would get to approve the arrangements first and vote every four years on keeping them.
I think that's positive.

Putting a border between us and NI?

 

[Danidl]

Bojo proposes that Northern Ireland should stay in the European single market for goods, but leave the customs union - resulting in new customs checks.
The Northern Ireland Assembly would get to approve the arrangements first and vote every four years on keeping them.
I think that's positive.

Except there is no NI Assembly nor has there been for the last 3 years. And there is no current talks. BJ has only been talking with one group ,which is a minority party in NI. The only subject on which the DUP is likely to hold a majority position is retention of the NI UK union.