Brexit, for once some facts.

Wicky

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Feb 12, 2014
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So what happens now? He can’t exit without a deal, he can’t call an election and he says he will not ask the EU for an extension. Where does he go?
He's left holding the holy Brexit handgrenade he coveted and with the pin back in but finds no one wants to take it off his hands quite yet... Who's next in line in the ranks to replace him as PM Gove?

Tory Conference should be an interesting affair. I wonder if Cummings is invited...
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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So what happens now? He can’t exit without a deal, he can’t call an election and he says he will not ask the EU for an extension. Where does he go?
he could bribe the SNP with a promise to agree to indyref2 if they support a bill to modify the fixed term parliaments.
It's essential that the date of the GE happens before 19 October, when he is forced to ask for an extension of A50.
I don't think Sturgeon would fall for it but one never knows.
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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So what happens now? He can’t exit without a deal, he can’t call an election and he says he will not ask the EU for an extension. Where does he go?
He brings back TMs WA , after the Queens speech and runs with that. Sufficient Labourite MPs will support him,so it passes, the loss of the DUP, will be irrelevant, and then calls for the GE, and gets a majority of 2/3 .
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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They are struggling at the Telegraph
"'Hypocrite' Jeremy Corbyn rejects general election as bill blocking no-deal Brexit set to pass Lords "

And the Express tries the same sad trick
Boris urges ‘people power’ to FORCE election after Corbyn's extraordinary act of cowardice
BORIS JOHNSON last night promised to “let the country decide” after bottler Jeremy Corbyn thwarted his attempt to trigger a general election.

The Mail says this
Boris Johnson's bid for snap election is CRUSHED: Corbyn chickens out of letting public go to the polls as MPs inflict humiliating defeat on PM hours after passing law to stop No Deal


Do they imagine he cares what they print?
"Chickens out?" Boris got his backside kicked!
I would only agree to an election in November not before

Amusingly these right wing rags tried to picture Boris looking happy!
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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A study in desperation for the right wing papers not to admit their hero got blown out of the water


What a day!
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Comment in Der Spiegel

"’Es wäre traurig, wenn es nicht so unterhaltsam wäre’.

My reaction
genau , Willkommen in der Republik Absurdistan
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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They are struggling at the Telegraph
"'Hypocrite' Jeremy Corbyn rejects general election as bill blocking no-deal Brexit set to pass Lords "

And the Express tries the same sad trick
Boris urges ‘people power’ to FORCE election after Corbyn's extraordinary act of cowardice
BORIS JOHNSON last night promised to “let the country decide” after bottler Jeremy Corbyn thwarted his attempt to trigger a general election.

The Mail says this
Boris Johnson's bid for snap election is CRUSHED: Corbyn chickens out of letting public go to the polls as MPs inflict humiliating defeat on PM hours after passing law to stop No Deal


Do they imagine he cares what they print?
"Chickens out?" Boris got his backside kicked!
I would only agree to an election in November not before

Amusingly these right wing rags tried to picture Boris looking happy!
People power might actually do the right thing - send BJ somewhere he doesn't want to be.

Johnson should beware – forcing a crisis rarely ends well for aspiring strongmen
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/05/boris-johnson-national-crisis-brexit

Ends with this paragraph:

Anyone who believes that Johnson is the strongman the country needs, however, may wish to recall the last time he was faced with social chaos as a political leader. In the summer of 2011, while he was mayor of London, the capital suffered its worst riots for 30 years. Taken by surprise, Johnson was on holiday in a remote part of Canada. For three days, while the disorder spread across London and other cities, he refused to return. In a BBC interview justifying his absence, he referred to the man whose killing by police sparked the riots, Mark Duggan, as “Michael Duggan”. More of that Johnson carelessness and over-confidence during the fraught years after Brexit could leave Britain with a crisis that makes its previous ones look minor.
 

OxygenJames

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Jan 8, 2012
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A study in desperation for the right wing papers not to admit their hero got blown out of the water
You wish. The battle sure was lost - but this is so far from over my dear friends.

Boris is going for bust. It's his only way out. He is utterly backed against the wall and thats a very dangerous position to put somebody.
 
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OxygenJames

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So. The basics from here is that this is all playing into us having a full-on Brexit.

Boris will get his election.

The opposition are not going to stick together on not having one - they will split and we will have an election either mid October or November - mark my words.

And the Torys will deselect anybody not 100% backing Boris - every Tory candidate standing will be completely for Boris and whatever stance he is taking - all those who voted against the government ytd will be out.

And they will win the election. They will win it - because the sentiment is with Boris. Look at the polls. Since he became leader the Tory % has shot up.

The battle was lost for sure. But all those remainers drinking champagne and celebrating are in for a shock if they think the war has also been won.

This is not over - the war has yet to be won - and it will be won by Boris and the true Brexiters.
 

oyster

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If anyone is expecting BJ to be bolstered by a wonderful trade deal with the USA (which appeared to be held out by another oaf), they should consider the NAFTA and its intended replacement the USMCA.

However different to the NAFTA, the USMCA is "only" a replacement and not a totally new agreement. It is still unratified. Just how long would a USUKFTA take to negotiate and then be ratified? Not what the proponents claim - look at what has actually happened in recent years in the USA.
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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You wish. The battle sure was lost - but this is so far from over my dear friends.

Boris is going for bust. It's his only way out. He is utterly backed against the wall and thats a very dangerous position to put somebody.
Boris is finding out how dangerous people with backs against the wall are to him. That is precisely the tactic he has been trying against the HoC. They have become dangerous.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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With no deal removed by the idiots this is hardly surprising is it.
We, ve done EU's job for them. Time to roll over and surrender, again.
 
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OxygenJames

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Jan 8, 2012
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This from Allister Heath.
Despite tonight's defeat, the PM will eventually 
get his election
"The Tory party is dead; long live the Tory party. The seismic realignment that was supposed to take place in 2016 is finally upon us, and a tougher, rougher, non-deferential conservatism is making its explosive debut.

Ruthlessly focused on the public’s priorities, its ideology is complex. In some ways, it will be more pro-capitalist and pro-freedom: especially on tax, motoring and the nanny state. It will be more conservative on law and order, defence and immigration. In yet other areas, such as health and overall public spending, it will back a larger government, as we saw in a Spending Review that increased overall expenditure by 0.5 per cent of GDP over two years.

But the biggest difference, of course, is that 31 years after Margaret Thatcher launched the modern Eurosceptic movement with her Bruges speech, her side has finally triumphed. Following the expulsion of the 21 most committed Remainers, Eurosceptics are in almost full control of the Tory party for the first time since the Fifties. If Boris Johnson’s massive, historic bet pays off – by no means certain – he will win the general election by scooping up a fresh demographic attracted by his domestic and European policies. He will then engineer a real Brexit, ensuring the period between 1973 and 2019 is remembered as a historical curiosity, an aberrant era during which the UK was conned into giving up its self-government.

As such, Remainers’ triumphalism these past two days is misplaced. Their hatred of Boris Johnson and his adviser Dominic Cummings, their inability to look outside of the Westminster bubble and their obsession with the minutiae of process is blinding them to the true state of play. The Remainers may still win in the end, of course, but only if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, laying waste to everything else many of them believe in.

Right now, Johnson and Cummings are still on a path to success, even if they have had to recalibrate their journey several times as obstacles have emerged. The situation is tense, the PM is feeling the pressure and much of the Cabinet is in a state of shock. But Boris hasn’t been “humiliated”. He hasn’t been “wrong-footed”.

The semi-prorogation didn’t “backfire”: it flushed out his hardcore opponents and allowed him to expel them. He knew he would have to do something drastic at some stage and there was no way that those committed to derailing his plans would ever have been allowed to stand under Tory colours at the election. His party was already split de facto, if not de jure; he was always leading a minority government in all but name. The sackings merely formalised this.

Part of the misunderstanding is that Remainers still see themselves as members of the natural governing class, with the Brexiteers as insolent interlopers. Such ultra-Remainers are so blinded by credentialism, by their hero worship of the likes of Kenneth Clarke – who, as chancellor, helped John Major gift power to Tony Blair – that they cannot understand why their removal actually helps Johnson.

They see the purge of their favourite Tories as a terrible loss of talent, a cataclysmic blow to the credibility of the party, its final death even; yet to Leave voters, losing anti-Brexit irreconcilables, especially overrated establishment figures, is a huge step in the right direction and proof of Boris’s seriousness.

In any case, the Prime Minister needs a party with a single message: every candidate will have to sign up to his plans. This will be the only way that he can fight off the Brexit Party. If he wins, perhaps with a slender majority, Johnson will need to be able to count on every one of his MPs.

In the first few hours after Johnson called for an election, when it became clear that MPs would seize control of Parliament, Remainers were elated: they thought they had crippled their enemy.

But they are now realising, to their horror, that their victory may be ephemeral. The MPs’ vote may not really matter; the PM is ready for an election, and he has in fact guaranteed one by making it clear that he doesn’t have a technical majority any longer. Paradoxically, weakness is strength for Boris. He might have preferred to go to the polls after Brexit, but the present path comes with its own advantages.

Hence Labour’s dithering, and the too-clever-by-half plan by some to try to outfox Johnson by delaying any vote until November or December. Combined with Parliament’s power grab, this could theoretically prevent Brexit on October 31, force Johnson to break his promise and ensure his destruction, with the help of a resurgent Brexit Party.

It won’t work: Labour will be forced to blink first. Such scheming implies Corbyn believes Johnson would win on October 15 – not a good look, as they say on Twitter. Delaying the election for months will prolong the life of a useless, unworkable, anarchical Parliament. The Government would relentlessly tell voters that Labour and the Lib Dems are blocking any progress and have decided to pay MPs not to work, reinforcing the Boris vs the establishment narrative.

Johnson may not get the blame for delaying Brexit either. Tory supporters and Leave voters increasingly hold his opponents responsible for the chaos, and that is even before he spends months repeating his mantra that Corbyn is a coward for refusing to face the electorate. The PM’s description of the Leader of the Opposition as a “chlorinated chicken” is a harbinger of things to come. Labour can’t go on refusing an election for much longer.

Last but not least, engineering a delay in Brexit would simply encourage the Government to go for broke. If they were to back a no-deal Brexit, Nigel Farage would step aside and the Leave vote would unite. I am sure those in No 10 genuinely and rightly want a deal. But they may not have a choice if furious voters begin to turn to the Brexit Party again. Do the Remainers really want to goad Downing Street in this way?

Johnson’s gamble was breathtaking in its ambition: he would take over a fatally divided Tory party with no majority, forcibly reform it in his image and gain a pro-Brexit majority. For all of the madness of the past few days, I’m still predicting that he will pull it off."
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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So. The basics from here is that this is all playing into us having a full-on Brexit.

Boris will get his election.

The opposition are not going to stick together on not having one - they will split and we will have an election either mid October or November - mark my words.

And the Torys will deselect anybody not 100% backing Boris - every Tory candidate standing will be completely for Boris and whatever stance he is taking - all those who voted against the government ytd will be out.

And they will win the election. They will win it - because the sentiment is with Boris. Look at the polls. Since he became leader the Tory % has shot up.

The battle was lost for sure. But all those remainers drinking champagne and celebrating are in for a shock if they think the war has also been won.

This is not over - the war has yet to be won - and it will be won by Boris and the true Brexiters.
In your dreams the election date will not be determined by Boris.
And you have no guarantee he will win anyway, his performance and that of the loathsome Jackass Grease Smug won't win the support of voters, he has been made to look exactly what he is
All lies, threats and bluster.
Any fool can do that.
 
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Wicky

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Feb 12, 2014
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Colchester, Essex
www.jhepburn.co.uk
No one was believing BJ's claim that his EU negotiations were going swimmingly and that he wanted a deal - when it was clear nothing meaningful was being offered up - and even if he proffered anything it wouldn't give much time to okay it. Boris's was simply stalling with the aim of crashing out. "Do or Die" BJ keeps saying well every vote he loses his politcal health plummets...
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
This from Allister Heath.

"The Tory party is dead; long live the Tory party. The seismic realignment that was supposed to take place in 2016 is finally upon us, and a tougher, rougher, non-deferential conservatism is making its explosive debut.

Ruthlessly focused on the public’s priorities, its ideology is complex. In some ways, it will be more pro-capitalist and pro-freedom: especially on tax, motoring and the nanny state. It will be more conservative on law and order, defence and immigration. In yet other areas, such as health and overall public spending, it will back a larger government, as we saw in a Spending Review that increased overall expenditure by 0.5 per cent of GDP over two years.

But the biggest difference, of course, is that 31 years after Margaret Thatcher launched the modern Eurosceptic movement with her Bruges speech, her side has finally triumphed. Following the expulsion of the 21 most committed Remainers, Eurosceptics are in almost full control of the Tory party for the first time since the Fifties. If Boris Johnson’s massive, historic bet pays off – by no means certain – he will win the general election by scooping up a fresh demographic attracted by his domestic and European policies. He will then engineer a real Brexit, ensuring the period between 1973 and 2019 is remembered as a historical curiosity, an aberrant era during which the UK was conned into giving up its self-government.

As such, Remainers’ triumphalism these past two days is misplaced. Their hatred of Boris Johnson and his adviser Dominic Cummings, their inability to look outside of the Westminster bubble and their obsession with the minutiae of process is blinding them to the true state of play. The Remainers may still win in the end, of course, but only if Jeremy Corbyn becomes prime minister, laying waste to everything else many of them believe in.

Right now, Johnson and Cummings are still on a path to success, even if they have had to recalibrate their journey several times as obstacles have emerged. The situation is tense, the PM is feeling the pressure and much of the Cabinet is in a state of shock. But Boris hasn’t been “humiliated”. He hasn’t been “wrong-footed”.

The semi-prorogation didn’t “backfire”: it flushed out his hardcore opponents and allowed him to expel them. He knew he would have to do something drastic at some stage and there was no way that those committed to derailing his plans would ever have been allowed to stand under Tory colours at the election. His party was already split de facto, if not de jure; he was always leading a minority government in all but name. The sackings merely formalised this.

Part of the misunderstanding is that Remainers still see themselves as members of the natural governing class, with the Brexiteers as insolent interlopers. Such ultra-Remainers are so blinded by credentialism, by their hero worship of the likes of Kenneth Clarke – who, as chancellor, helped John Major gift power to Tony Blair – that they cannot understand why their removal actually helps Johnson.

They see the purge of their favourite Tories as a terrible loss of talent, a cataclysmic blow to the credibility of the party, its final death even; yet to Leave voters, losing anti-Brexit irreconcilables, especially overrated establishment figures, is a huge step in the right direction and proof of Boris’s seriousness.

In any case, the Prime Minister needs a party with a single message: every candidate will have to sign up to his plans. This will be the only way that he can fight off the Brexit Party. If he wins, perhaps with a slender majority, Johnson will need to be able to count on every one of his MPs.

In the first few hours after Johnson called for an election, when it became clear that MPs would seize control of Parliament, Remainers were elated: they thought they had crippled their enemy.

But they are now realising, to their horror, that their victory may be ephemeral. The MPs’ vote may not really matter; the PM is ready for an election, and he has in fact guaranteed one by making it clear that he doesn’t have a technical majority any longer. Paradoxically, weakness is strength for Boris. He might have preferred to go to the polls after Brexit, but the present path comes with its own advantages.

Hence Labour’s dithering, and the too-clever-by-half plan by some to try to outfox Johnson by delaying any vote until November or December. Combined with Parliament’s power grab, this could theoretically prevent Brexit on October 31, force Johnson to break his promise and ensure his destruction, with the help of a resurgent Brexit Party.

It won’t work: Labour will be forced to blink first. Such scheming implies Corbyn believes Johnson would win on October 15 – not a good look, as they say on Twitter. Delaying the election for months will prolong the life of a useless, unworkable, anarchical Parliament. The Government would relentlessly tell voters that Labour and the Lib Dems are blocking any progress and have decided to pay MPs not to work, reinforcing the Boris vs the establishment narrative.

Johnson may not get the blame for delaying Brexit either. Tory supporters and Leave voters increasingly hold his opponents responsible for the chaos, and that is even before he spends months repeating his mantra that Corbyn is a coward for refusing to face the electorate. The PM’s description of the Leader of the Opposition as a “chlorinated chicken” is a harbinger of things to come. Labour can’t go on refusing an election for much longer.

Last but not least, engineering a delay in Brexit would simply encourage the Government to go for broke. If they were to back a no-deal Brexit, Nigel Farage would step aside and the Leave vote would unite. I am sure those in No 10 genuinely and rightly want a deal. But they may not have a choice if furious voters begin to turn to the Brexit Party again. Do the Remainers really want to goad Downing Street in this way?

Johnson’s gamble was breathtaking in its ambition: he would take over a fatally divided Tory party with no majority, forcibly reform it in his image and gain a pro-Brexit majority. For all of the madness of the past few days, I’m still predicting that he will pull it off."
Your little Neo Fascist wet dream is coming apart at the seams.
Why on Earth you put your faith is this squalid plot to subvert democtacy is a mystery.
Boris is dead in the water and the Grinning moron Cummings is on the way out.
Cut your losses, and quit this assault on society.
 

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