Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

You simply found your level. Turns out it was ****.

This was simply one of many functions, clearly you lack the brain to know the difference fundamentally important things and producing nonsense to fool the public.

In terms of usefulness to the Humans race and it was a choice between what you do and designing efficient sanitary equipment.
You would struggle to come last.

 

[oldgroaner]

Ok, I suspect you may see this one coming. But what are its advantages over a bog standard toilet ( no pun intended)?

Power with low flush content cistern where a siphon can't cope.

 

[Fingers]

This was simply one of many functions, clearly you lack the brain to know the difference fundamentally important things and producing nonsense to fool the public.

Maybe. I have won a BAFTA though.

What's the equivalent in the toilet world and did you get one?

 

[50Hertz]

And they are only legal in this country because the EU legislated in favour of them, they did not at the time this happened comply with the UK water regulations, because as they wear, they tend to dribble water to waste virtually invisibly down the back of the pan, only noticeable when a lime stain appears.
Our water regulations stipulated three things
1: that the had to be a visible form of warning of water loss if the flushing mechanism leaked
(This precluded the Flapper valve for the reason i mentioned) and the said warning mechanism had to appear on the outside of the building in case it was unoccupied.
2: A syphon prevents water loss in the same was as once the flush finished the water stops flowing and cannot (theoretically leave over the spillover level in the syphon which has to be higher that the filled cistern water level
2: in the event of a total failure of the ballvalve supplying water this warning over flow had to be unable to carry away the full flow, and this is the cruel part.
3: The rear wall of all cisterns had to have a cut out below the spillover level of the syphon to permit the massive flow occurring if the ballvalve or servo water delivery valve fails at full bore, thus flooding the house deliberately and causing the occupants to take urgent action to stop the leak

The reason valves like the one flecc has came in was simple the flush volume permitted under EU and of course UK regulations dropped from 13 litre to 9, then 6, and is now at 4.5 (it may even be 3 as I am way out of date after 14 years or retirement.
Siphons have a slow start to their action , then speed up and slow down at the end, they do not perform well compared to the instant Slam, bam thank you Mam! of the flapper valve where there is so little water and consequently as is said in the comedy film "Chicken Run"
"We need more Thrust!"
Hope this helps
Crikey I was remembering a lecture I delivered in our training centre in the 1990's there

I actually found that interesting. It’s easy to overlook the everyday things which surround us and dismiss them as being trivial. Thanks for posting.

 

[flecc]

Ok, I suspect you may see this one coming. But what are its advantages over a bog standard toilet ( no pun intended)?

As OG has already posted, it permits more powerful flow than a siphon cistern valve, so can use less water to do the necessary. In addition the adjustable one that I have and illustrated allows for setting of the flow rate and to a limited extent the amount of water used.

Regarding the criticisms OG has. A properly installed and aligned one doesn't leak or seep water, I put my one in exactly a decade ago and it's worked perfectly ever since. The flap valve if it starts to leak is a consumable anyway, clipped into place without tools in seconds and costing under £4 from some sources.

As for overflow, the internal drain tube is far more dependable than the plastic piped external ones in many modern properties which often have the plastic pipe cracked. My unused old overflow pipe is. Then when an overflow occurs the property floods, something that's happened to some on my estate. These properties have concrete floors capped with wooden floorboard rafts on battens. Any water leak fills the void between these two and by the time it surfaces there's hundreds of gallons under the floorboards.

So despite the criticisms, I'm very happy with what I have which is ideal for my circumstances. It's coupled with a good old fashioned dependable ballcock valve which won't fail to high level overflow.
.

 

[Fingers]

I actually found that interesting. It’s easy to overlook the everyday things which surround us and dismiss them as being trivial. Thanks for posting.

 

[flecc]

And they are only legal in this country because the EU legislated in favour of them, they did not at the time this happened comply with the UK water regulations, because as they wear, they tend to dribble water to waste virtually invisibly down the back of the pan, only noticeable when a lime stain appears.
Our water regulations stipulated three things
1: that the had to be a visible form of warning of water loss if the flushing mechanism leaked
(This precluded the Flapper valve for the reason i mentioned) and the said warning mechanism had to appear on the outside of the building in case it was unoccupied.
2: A syphon prevents water loss in the same was as once the flush finished the water stops flowing and cannot (theoretically leave over the spillover level in the syphon which has to be higher that the filled cistern water level
2: in the event of a total failure of the ballvalve supplying water this warning over flow had to be unable to carry away the full flow, and this is the cruel part.
3: The rear wall of all cisterns had to have a cut out below the spillover level of the syphon to permit the massive flow occurring if the ballvalve or servo water delivery valve fails at full bore, thus flooding the house deliberately and causing the occupants to take urgent action to stop the leak

The reason valves like the one flecc has came in was simple the flush volume permitted under EU and of course UK regulations dropped from 13 litre to 9, then 6, and is now at 4.5 (it may even be 3 as I am way out of date after 14 years or retirement.
Siphons have a slow start to their action , then speed up and slow down at the end, they do not perform well compared to the instant Slam, bam thank you Mam! of the flapper valve where there is so little water and consequently as is said in the comedy film "Chicken Run"
"We need more Thrust!"
Hope this helps
Crikey I was remembering a lecture I delivered in our training centre in the 1990's there

See my response on this link.
.

 

[flecc]

Which makes me far more useful than you will ever be, the things I designed were useful to the human race.

Don't take any notice OG, you're the one flushed with success.
.

 

[Fingers]

Don't take any notice OG, you're the one flushed with success.
.

Meh.

Its a mere flash in the pan.

 

[Danidl]

View attachment 30993

By the time I retired, I had responsibility for some 40 engineers, some chartered the rest eligible to become chartered, and I developed a few observations regarding personality types. Civil Engineers( for which I had no responsibility ) would always attempt to bully one,and shout one down. But if one kept a reasonable tone, their bluster would cease.. Electronic and to a lesser extent Electrical were the complete opposite. Quiet self effacing and respectful to a fault, but with the flexibility of a brick. Mechanical engineers were very much piggy in the middle... They would argue ,see alternatives ,agree compromises. My background was not Mechanical.

 

[Fingers]

By the time I retired, I had responsibility for some 40 engineers, some chartered the rest eligible to become chartered, and I developed a few observations regarding personality types. Civil Engineers( for which I had no responsibility ) would always attempt to bully one,and shout one down. But if one kept a reasonable tone, their bluster would cease.. Electronic and to a lesser extent Electrical were the complete opposite. Quiet self effacing and respectful to a fault, but with the flexibility of a brick. Mechanical engineers were very much piggy in the middle... They would argue ,see alternatives ,agree compromises. My background was not Mechanical.

Thanks for sharing.

Every day is a learning day.

 

[oldgroaner]

As OG has already posted, it permits more powerful flow than a siphon cistern valve, so can use less water to do the necessary. In addition the adjustable one that I have and illustrated allows for setting of the flow rate and to a limited extent the amount of water used.

Regarding the criticisms OG has. A properly installed and aligned one doesn't leak or seep water, I put my one in exactly a decade ago and it's worked perfectly ever since. The flap valve if it starts to leak is a consumable anyway, clipped into place without tools in seconds and costing under £4 from some sources.

As for overflow, the internal drain tube is far more dependable than the plastic piped external ones in many modern properties which often have the plastic pipe cracked. My unused old overflow pipe is. Then when an overflow occurs the property floods, something that's happened to some on my estate. These properties have concrete floors capped with wooden floorboard rafts on battens. Any water leak fills the void between these two and by the time it surfaces there's hundreds of gallons under the floorboards.

So despite the criticisms, I'm very happy with what I have which is ideal for my circumstances. It's coupled with a good old fashioned dependable ballcock valve which won't fail to high level overflow.
.

Actually flecc those criticisms were those of the water board regulators, not mine! and they wanted any leak to flood the house in order that people took action and curbed the losses!
Don't get me wrong if i gave the wrong impression flush valves and indeed power jet flush system(not covered in the present discussion) were flavours of the month as far as we engineers were concerned, we loved them!

 

[oldgroaner]

Don't take any notice OG, you're the one flushed with success.
.

Very good....

 

[oldgroaner]

View attachment 30993

I really really like that!

 

[Fingers]

Johnson dodges questions and straight answers shock.

 

[oldgroaner]

By the time I retired, I had responsibility for some 40 engineers, some chartered the rest eligible to become chartered, and I developed a few observations regarding personality types. Civil Engineers( for which I had no responsibility ) would always attempt to bully one,and shout one down. But if one kept a reasonable tone, their bluster would cease.. Electronic and to a lesser extent Electrical were the complete opposite. Quiet self effacing and respectful to a fault, but with the flexibility of a brick. Mechanical engineers were very much piggy in the middle... They would argue ,see alternatives ,agree compromises. My background was not Mechanical.

Oh Dear it looks like I'm in Trouble this American patent of mine is electricackle


What does that make me?
Be polite now!
I know I'm an UNCivil Engineer! walks away cackling to himself... if they only knew...
Zlatan as advised me to delete the files, I have taken his advice, but they are available if anyone is interested

 

[oldgroaner]

Maybe. I have won a BAFTA though.

What's the equivalent in the toilet world and did you get one?

Congratulations on your award, as to myself..
Nothing much really just a couple of patents, though I only have details left of this one on post
#57,377

But then everybody has a world wide patent or two to their name , don't they?

 

[Fingers]

Congratulations on your award, as to myself..
Nothing much really just a couple of patents, though I only have details left of this one on post
#57,377
But then everybody has a world wide patent or two to their name , don't they?

What does the patent actually do Gerald?

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't think people realise what being an Engineer is ofter like.

Much of what Engineers do ends up being credited to someone else, for my MD asked me one day to make a floppy styrene bath panel stiffer as he wanted to sell it at a premium price.
As I had no budget it was very much a DIY project
I conned our Joinery department to make me up a mould from an old flush door, which fitted the aperture on the moulding machine after trimmimg, with pine 4 inch tapered pyramids screwed on, spaced to form an egg box faced stiffener, then had to drill 1.5mm vacuum holes through wood up to 4 inches thick , not having a suitable drill, I did it with piano wire held in a drill with masking tape and cut with a tang on the end, it worked perfectly
I kept the component price down using recyled styrene sheet made of the scrap trimmed off the panels in manufacture, sent back to the sheet supplier and they melted and remixed all different coloured scrap creating an oddly coloured but cheap similar performance sheet..
Various adhesive systems came and went and it became obvious that any rigid adhesive was no use,as it was not only expensive, by any impact caused unsightly stress lines on the front of the panel
I needed a hot melt glue that would not transmit the stress, but if separated, would "grab" again on contact
Just one fly in the ointment, it's melting point was higher than that of the styrene sheet .
I was well and truly stuck till I took my youngest daughter to hull fair and saw a man selling candy floss... molten sugar,, when spun cool enough to put his finger in it..

Visiting a fair in Cologne I found a company demonstrating a system for spraying hot melt adhesive as a matrix.. how hot is that on contact? I asked, he sprayed some on my hand, it was just warm.... and best of all could be sprayed along the lines of the blocks of the panel reinforcing sheet for 4.5 pence per unit!
When I had produced the first panel by bullying the bath plant manager to spare me time on one of the moulding machines, I showed it to the directors and got the Md to walk along the panel with it on the floor. it was solid as a rock and unmarked afterwards.

And here is the moral of the tale. the Marketing director brought in an "Internationally famous Designer" whose input consisted of adding a stripe along the from of the panel, and it was sold as his concept and design.
We sold literally thousands of these for years with an additional £40 profit on each one and a very minimal warranty cost.

Fingers asked this
"
Maybe. I have won a BAFTA though.

What's the equivalent in the toilet world and did you get one? .

You get crapped on from a great height Fingers, that's why Engineers can seem a bit jaded at times

And I'm sure that the other engineers on here have had this sort of thing done to them.

 

[oldgroaner]

What does the patent actually do Gerald?

It proved a completely safe cntrol system for switching on and off a whirlpool bath and if the Efflux is blocked will instantly kill power to the pump, and will also do so if the bath is accidentally emptied.
There has been cases of children drowning by getting long hair dragged into the water efflux and holding them beneath the surface, this system gives full ptotection against that and the control by the user is not merely by using an air line switch but protected to this level

IP66 Enclosures​

Able to protect against powerful water jets

What was it worth to me? a payment of £300 (the only bonus I ever got in 45 years service)
And American Standard forgot they owned me a sum of $1 yes that's right one dollar for the rights to the patent.
It took three years of defending it against counter claims too.
Wasn't worth the effort!

Fortunately as Woosh, Flecc, 50Hertz and all the other engineers who come on know Engineers are cursed with a sense of humour and will press on rewardless