Brexit, for once some facts.

gray198

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Unless someone poses a threat to you you do not have the right to act in self defence. You do not have the right under uk law to use force to remove someone from your property. You can be charged with assault/battery if you use force to do so (as that prize dickhead field did). How about thinking a bit more before assuming?
just out of interest what would you do if someone forced their way into your house and you didn't know the threat level. Would you be so benevolent. Very easy to criticize from a safe position
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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we've tried that but they don't want a solution, only capitulation
no, they did not say that.
the deal with TM has always been that the backstop is in force until a technical solution can replace it.
Originally, the EU wanted that the backstop is limited to NI and the customs border moved to the Irish Sea, a very straightforward solution.
TM saw an opportunity to stay in the customs union without paying for it with remittance of the duty collected to the EU, she wanted the benefit to be extended to the whole of the UK, that's why she attracted the fire of the ERG.
It's still very easy for BJ to shaft the DUP and adopt the original WA, customs border in the Irish Sea.
He can do that before October 31 by claiming that a technical solution can be implemented before the end of 2020. He only needs 10 Labour MPs to vote with him and there may be as many as 20 willing Labour MPs.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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yes he did and it is the confected outrage of people like you who are turning the country into a laughing stock.
I, m afraid country does have a bizar entitlement concept problem. Somebody goes somewhere they shouldnt, behaves in an unacceptable manner and then shouts"you cant touch me". Its exactly why our teachers, social workers, prison wardens, nurses and lecturers are having such a terrible time.
I heard it time and time again from folk breaking law.
 

gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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it is one of the reasons why people turn a blind eye when people are being attacked. Why intervene when some clown who wasn't even there is going to come along and claim the helper used excess force
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Which evidences an appaling level of ignorancy of both History and Geography
Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book,
Don't know much about the french I took
But I do know that I love you,
And I know that if you love me, too,
What a wonderful world this would be

;)
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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no, they did not say that.
the deal with TM has always been that the backstop is in force until a technical solution can replace it.
Originally, the EU wanted that the backstop is limited to NI and the customs border moved to the Irish Sea, a very straightforward solution.
TM saw an opportunity to stay in the customs union without paying for it with remittance of the duty collected to the EU, she wanted the benefit to be extended to the whole of the UK, that's why she attracted the fire of the ERG.
It's still very easy for BJ to shaft the DUP and adopt the original WA, customs border in the Irish Sea.
He can do that before October 31 by claiming that a technical solution can be implemented before the end of 2020. He only needs 10 Labour MPs to vote with him and there may be as many as 20 willing Labour MPs.
If you go back to earlier posts of mine, circ March, that was the compromise I had assumed would have been proposed by the UK..but of course the DUP ERG collaboration could not consider it..for different reasons. The EU will still probably accept that. The Irish Government will not stand in the way. ..And Mr Johnson is seen as a genius
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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what a pathetic reaction. The climate change terrorists think they can do just what they want and they don't like it when someone challenges them. It is a case of you can't win whatever you do. All these female politicians saying he should be fired. Who knows who she was. May have had a violent agenda, disguised in a red dress. Nobody can be taken at face value. We have seen in this country innocent looking people doing horrendous things. Predictably Labour is calling for his head, the same party who ejected an old man from their party conference for heckling. Bunch of hypocrites. I know who I would want beside me in a crisis and it wouldn't be Jess Phillips or any of Corbyns hypocrites
It rather shows that we cannot rely on the tories to defend us. If they can't even keep a few unarmed, non-violent protestors out of their dining room what chance keeping our real enemies away?

It shows utter incompetence at organisation.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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And here is a case where restraining raving lunatic leaders is now custom and parctice in the so called Democratic Nations
Again from the DM
"
Donald's U-turn: President Trump 'approved military strike against Iran in retaliation for downing US drone but PULLED BACK at last minute - against the advice of aides - as planes were in air and battleships in position'

The worrying part is "against the advice of aides"
These aides are as dangerous as he is, and we have Boris who would back the USA up
They used to have some decent aides de camp - but they have got rid of them because the idiots thought they must be LGBT supporters. :)
 
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50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
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it is one of the reasons why people turn a blind eye when people are being attacked. Why intervene when some clown who wasn't even there is going to come along and claim the helper used excess force
You are right. People have in the back of their minds, the thought as to how their actions will be perceived after the heat of the incident. This causes hesitation, or perhaps just to pretend they haven’t seen anything.
 
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Nev

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 1, 2018
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I think Mark Field’s action was spot on. That idiot woman is lucky she isn’t nursing a broken nose.
I wonder what his reaction would have been, if instead of a slim young woman in a red dress, the protestor had been a 19 stone ex body builder with knife scars and tattoos on his tattoos. Some how I just don't see him grabbing someone like that by the throat and frog matching them out of the building. My guess is he would have just kept in his seat and let the bruiser walk past him.
 

gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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I wonder what his reaction would have been, if instead of a slim young woman in a red dress, the protestor had been a 19 stone ex body builder with knife scars and tattoos on his tattoos. Some how I just don't see him grabbing someone like that by the throat and frog matching them out of the building. My guess is he would have just kept in his seat and let the bruiser walk past him.
don't necessarily agree with you, but look at another scenario. What if someone has been allowed to just walk in to a meeting and assaulted say Anna Soubry or JRM and nobody intervened. The question would be ,'' why did no one do anything''. Very easy to criticize with hindsight, but as I said earlier, dammed if you do and dammed if you don't, by the armchair warriors. I don't so much worry about the competence of MP's, more about their lack of backbone
 
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Danidl

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just out of interest what would you do if someone forced their way into your house and you didn't know the threat level. Would you be so benevolent. Very easy to criticize from a safe position
I have looked at the Daily Mail video and am inclined to look at this as a storm in a teacup.
It was not in Mr Fields place to engage in this action. His behaviour was in my opinion due to a sense of outrage and entitlement, How much alcohol had been consumed by this stage in the proceeding!. It was utterly different from the response of John Prescott,when attacked. Mr Fields had plenty of time to respond as the woman was making her way up the room...It was premeditated.
Events like this are not Private affairs . They are public events and the speech with extracts are invariably reported... That was a news camera, not someone's mobile phone.
I would agree that Mr Mercer's comment is on the button... anyone who thinks this is violence, needs to have their senses recalibrated.. However it was technically an obvious assault and was premeditated over the 10 seconds?? The group was in the room.
The claim that this was a terrorist or potential terrorist is laughable,that she was concealing weapons in a dress with bared arms,and Grey, to conflate this as Terrorism, means you need to recalibrate your sensibilities.
I am not at all convinced that there was no adaquate security. That other people were escorted out proves that point.
 
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Nev

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May 1, 2018
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BJ mentioned Gatt 24 in one of his rambling answers in the televised debate the other day. No one challenged him on it at the time (probably everyone was too bored by his blather and had stopped listening) but it seems it was like a lot of his remarks, utter BS.

We need to have him sit down for say a half hour interview with someone like Andrew Neil, who could expose BJ as someone who has no real plan, and who has only three interests which are in no particular order.
1. Boris Johnson
2. Boris Johnson
3. Boris Johnson.
 
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gray198

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Apr 4, 2012
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conflate this as Terrorism, means you need to recalibrate your sensibilities.
these people are trying to inflict their beliefs on other people against their will. Ok not exactly terrorism but not right either. Why should they think it OK to disrupt other people because of their own warped views.
 
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Nev

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May 1, 2018
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Did anyone see the late politics show (This Week) last night on BBC 1. I might have miss heard what was said but I think this is what Alan Johnson said.

When he was home secretary (I think in 2009) he got the blame for stabbings in London reaching a level of 26000. Last year he said the level in London was 21000. Now the Mayor of London got a lot of blame for that, and the home secretary very little.

Have a guess who was the Mayor of London when stabbings were at the 26000 level?
 
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Nev

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May 1, 2018
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I really think questions need to be asked about the security levels at the Mansion House speech last night. How was it possible for the protestors to get into a high profile occasion like that?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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When he was home secretary (I think in 2009) he got the blame for stabbings in London reaching a level of 26000. Last year he said the level in London was 21000. Now the Mayor of London got a lot of blame for that, and the home secretary very little.

Have a guess who was the Mayor of London when stabbings were at the 26000 level?
Boris Johnson of course. The criticism against anything in London is always by Tories, politically motivated and never based on facts. They hate that London is a very successful Labour city and that hatred is intensified by their own miserable failure to be able to run London when Tory central government briefly tried to take over its running in the 1980s.

Thus the current Mayor Sadiq Khan is constantly being attacked on slow progress in building affordable homes despite a build in the thousands being planned and a start on well over a thousand.

No mention that in Boris Johnson's last and eighth mayoralty year that only 1, yes just one affordable home was completed.

And as for criticism on crime levels, it was Johnson who slashed the police budget, sacked the Met Commissioner and got rid of thousands of officers with his cuts.
.
 

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