Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Perhaps we should pay more attention to the sort of lies Rees Mogg broadcasts to people who are gullible enough to believe him
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47247835/jacob-rees-mogg-comments-on-concentration-camps

According to him the camps were intended for humanitarian purposes "So that people could be fed"
And the number that died was comparable with the death rate in Glasgow at the time
The reality was this
From 1899 to 1901, roughly 48,000 people died in British concentration camps in South Africa. Of the 28,000 white deaths, 22,000 were children under 16. Over 4,000 were women. The 20,000 Black deaths were less clearly recorded, but c.80% were children. .

They were moved there so that the British could burn their farms & smoke out the guerrillas.
The camps were a military tactic, not a humanitarian exercise: a weapon in a war for gold. Lord Kitchener called them a "method of limiting the endurance of the guerrillas". "They do not like their women being brought in & I think it has made them more anxious for peace".

The death rate in Glasgow is irrelevant - except as a reminder of how appalling life was under the economic system Rees-Mogg favours. The proper comparison is with the death rate in SA if the camps had not existed. A quarter of women & children dead in 3 years?

This man is a dangerous lunatic

 

[oldgroaner]

Gybing is great fun...

Sorry the joke fails on account of you not understanding a word than anyone who has sailed the smallest dinghy knows
"A jibe (US) or gybe (Britain) is a sailing maneuver whereby a sailing vessel reaching downwind turns its stern through the wind, such that the wind direction changes from one side of the boat to the other. .

And it's true gybing is fun, but what has that to do with me?
Haven't sailed in my old pals Tornado for many years.

 

[oldgroaner]

Depends on the force of the wind and the age of the captain...

Don't laugh , he just got the wrong word by mistake...
trying to be funny, he can be as cutting as a sponge when he tries!

 

[Danidl]

He posted this "So mother Theresa can exile you.. Can I nominate OG.. "
Sorry to me that was just another jibe

Ok.. I so try to ignore those. My mind just cancels them out.

 

[anotherkiwi]

brexit isn't the problem it is the symptom

brexit isn't the solution, neither is staying in the EU and not playing by the rules

Where do we go from here?

 

[oyster]

The death rate in Glasgow is irrelevant - except as a reminder of how appalling life was under the economic system Rees-Mogg favours.

Agreed, but to make the picture a bit more complete, the Herald says:

Rees-Mogg's comparison with Glasgow at the time is misleading at best. The concentration camp figure of deaths spans a year, totalling more than 48,000 who perished, Boer and black, from a prisoner population of less than 200,000. Glasgow, in 1901, had a population of 762,000 and, according to the National Records of Scotland, 16,190 people died. That dropped slightly to 15,530 in 1902.
The usual measurement is of deaths per 100,000 population, and on that measurement camp deaths were an astronomical 24,000/100,000 – more than 10 times that of Glasgow at the time, at 2,124/100,000.
The Scotland-wide death rate today is around half that Glasgow figure.
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/17438410.is-rees-moggs-claim-that-the-death-rate-in-glasgow-was-the-same-as-boer-war-concentration-camps-true/

 

[jonathan.agnew]

brexit isn't the problem it is the symptom

brexit isn't the solution, neither is staying in the EU and not playing by the rules

Where do we go from here?

Were in purgatory. I think we will need to remain in it, and an increasingly damaging impasse for a genuine burning bush moment during which those who voted leave see the light. The worst thing that can happen is May's corporate friendly brino and an unhappy grinding on of all those ugly angry xenophobic undercurrents.

 

[tommie]

The death rate in Glasgow is irrelevant - except as a reminder of how appalling life was under the economic system Rees-Mogg favours. The proper comparison is with the death rate in SA if the camps had not existed. A quarter of women & children dead in 3 years?

This poster is a dangerous lunatic

Never a truer word was said.....

 

[Fingers]

Don't laugh , he just got the wrong word by mistake...
trying to be funny, he can be as cutting as a sponge when he tries!

Keep it on topic mate.

You’re better than this old friend.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Keep it on topic mate.

You’re better than this old friend.

How about a little less hypocrisy, old friend?

 

[oldgroaner]

Never a truer word was said.....

Forgery again! this has simply got to stop, it's bad enough that your comments are peurile without you stooping to this.
That's two of you that have let the leave side down by being dishonest.
And a second one who agreed with you even though he must have known it was a forgery.
How very telling that is. fittingly that one alleges he works in he media.
And it shows...badly.

 

[Woosh]

brexit isn't the problem it is the symptom

brexit isn't the solution, neither is staying in the EU and not playing by the rules

Where do we go from here?

brexit is a phenomenon that defies common sense.

 

[50Hertz]

you do seem to be confusing your runaway (and grisly)fantasies with the facts inasmuch as they are known..

Oh, I see. Perhaps if she came back you could start an online petition to give her a TV show too. How about “Shamima Begum’s a place in the sun.” You can keep up the theme with Anne Frank's cash in the attic, or Peter Sutcliffe's homes under the hammer. Maybe even Fred and Rose West’s Ground force special? What about Josef Fritzl's Amazing Spaces?

 

[oldgroaner]

brexit is a phenomenon that defies common sense.

It's simply the ultimate triumph of malignant marketing

 

[jonathan.agnew]

brexit is a phenomenon that defies common sense.

I don't want to parade clichés, but it is also familiar territory, now where have I seen an economic crisis being exploited by populist far right politicians to stoke division and misdirected patriotic fervour? Shades of '33 and the rise of fascism comes to mind. Let's just be grateful we have a slightly more established institutional democracy, deprivation is less severe and our inept house of commons put up a fraction more resistance than the reichstach

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Oh, I see. Perhaps if she came back you could start an online petition to give her a TV show too. How about “Shamima Begum’s a place in the sun.” You can keep up the theme with Anne Frank's cash in the attic, or Peter Sutcliffe's homes under the hammer. Maybe even Fred and Rose West’s Ground force special? What about Josef Fritzl's Amazing Spaces and Kate and Gerry McCann's Sun, sea and suspicious parents?

You do have a rich imaginery life. Not to mention first name knowledge of serial killers. For the record, I don't sympathise with her. I believe, strongly, she should face justice, with all its consequences and take full responsibility for what she did. But as danidl pointed out living by laws, and not tabloid fuelled mob justice, is what makes us civilised.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Oh, I see. Perhaps if she came back you could start an online petition to give her a TV show too. How about “Shamima Begum’s a place in the sun.” You can keep up the theme with Anne Frank's cash in the attic, or Peter Sutcliffe's homes under the hammer. Maybe even Fred and Rose West’s Ground force special? What about Josef Fritzl's Amazing Spaces and Kate and Gerry McCann's Sun, sea and suspicious parents?

You do, if I may say so, need to work on your nosology. Grouping Anne Frank with Peter Sutcliffe doesn't make any coherent sense. No wonder you voted leave.

 

[Woosh]

Laura Kuenssberg tweet: a small group of Labour MP s is leaving.

It seems to me that both parties need to be split to bring sanity back.

 

[Danidl]

Oh, I see. Perhaps if she came back you could start an online petition to give her a TV show too. How about “Shamima Begum’s a place in the sun.” You can keep up the theme with Anne Frank's cash in the attic, or Peter Sutcliffe's homes under the hammer. Maybe even Fred and Rose West’s Ground force special? What about Josef Fritzl's Amazing Spaces and Kate and Gerry McCann's Sun, sea and suspicious parents?

I can enjoy black humour,but that is obscene.

 

[50Hertz]

But as danidl pointed out living by laws, and not tabloid fuelled mob justice, is what makes us civilised.

That depends on which laws we live by. There are certain laws and systems of justice in use within other countries that I’m sure you would not want to be subjected to. For example, I don’t believe that a system of law & justice which sanctions capital punishment is civilised. Therefore you are wrong, living by laws does not necessarily make for a civilised society.