Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

I, d choose born 1960,Western Europe. Chances are you, d be well fed, have decent health care, have a job, get an education, learn to read and write, not go to war, draw a pension and die in peace. We really never have had it so good.

Good choice and mine too.

Your last line quote of Harold Macmillan's famous words reminds me of Kenneth Horne in one of his radio comedies back then.

Speaking to a crowd Macmillan fashion, he boomed out "You've never had it so good", only to have a elderly man in the audience plaintively call out:

"I've never had it".
.

 

[Zlatan]

Opening up more time for illness is a sad fact though. The medics have been good at extending life and curing illness, but not very good at stopping illness occurring in the first place

My brother's is the most recent example. His heart was failing with repeated attacks, so open heart surgery fitted him with a new heart valve.

That gave him the chance to suffer bowel cancer two years later.
.

Did you speak to him about it flecc. How many of us would make that choice even knowing it would happen. People seem to have an inherent desire to stay here even in the most dire of circumstances. Saw it with my step father who battled and battled fron 90 to 97. He wanted to make 100...

 

[flecc]

It may gave been ,but I interpreted it that way from fleccs posting.

You were right. At 78 years and at the end of 14 years of suffering from a slowly failing heart despite interventions, my mother was finally slipping away peacefully in hospital, fully aware that it was the end and perfectly contented.

Suddenly all hell was let loose as the crash trolley arrived with it's crew and she was being pummelled and shocked back into life.

Afterwards she was furious that they'd done that so needlessly.

Three months later she finally died a very slow and horrific death over several days, gasping for breath as she gradually drowned in her own lung fluids that the doctors couldn't control.

I've long been of the opinion that the Hippocratic Oath to preserve life that doctors take should be abandoned. It was fine when all doctors had was aspirin, a hot poultice and kind words, but now they have the power to prolongue life into extreme cruelty, a different standard is needed.
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[Zlatan]

You were right. At 78 years and at the end of 14 years of suffering from a slowly failing heart despite interventions, she was finally slipping away peacefully in hospital, fully aware that it was the end and perfectly contented.

Suddenly all hell was let loose as the crash trolley arrived with it's crew and she was being pummelled and shocked back into life.

Afterwards she was furious that they'd done that so needlessly.

Three months later she finally died a very slow and horrific death over several days, gasping for breath as she gradually drowned in her own lung fluids that the doctors couldn't control.

I've long been of the opinion that the Hippocratic Oath to preserve life that doctors take should be abandoned. It was fine when all doctors had was aspirin, a hot poultice and kind words, but now they have the power to prolongue life into extreme cruelty, a different standard is needed.
.

Yep, agreed. You can request DNR but not sure at what stage it would be followed.
Ahwell,not there yet.... I hope..

 

[flecc]

Did you speak to him about it flecc. How many of us would make that choice even knowing it would happen. People seem to have an inherent desire to stay here even in the most dire of circumstances. Saw it with my step father who battled and battled fron 90 to 97. He wanted to make 100...

Yes of course. He's still alive, having gone through chemothery, radiotherapy and multiple operations, but has been left with life complicating conditions.

However a more relevant answer is this post of what happened to my mother and what she thought about it.

I'm a do not resuscitate candidate when my turn comes, even if it's imminent. Life only has a point if it also has some quality.
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[oldgroaner]

I have honestly not touched the above quote. (well I removed the surrounding linguistic diarrhea)
Its random babble again OG. What are you doing. Its utter rubbish and sounds like the ravings of a mad person who has English as their 10th language.
I think you wrote it and went back through, deleted "of" and "which" a few times and then jumbled it up a bit just to spite me.
Can you translate it into English, presumably its Hull speak at moment.
They say we are judged by the level of combatant we chose to engage with, at current standards, I, m fecked.
Please up your game OG, I, m looking stupid arguing with you at moment.

Lets see now what this poster is revealing about his attitude

First an admission of guilt "I have honestly not touched the above quote. "
Not a very good start is it? admitting that you have previously altered and forged posts
Then a gratuitous insult
"Its random babble again OG. What are you doing. Its utter rubbish and sounds like the ravings of a mad person who has English as their 10th language."
Another side swipe "Can you translate it into English, presumably its Hull speak at moment.
Hull is by the way a City with a Fine University and Training and Technical Colleges in the latter of which my elder Daughter is a lecturer.
A misplaced boast here
They say we are judged by the level of combatant we chose to engage with, at current standards, I, m fecked.
And this in response to a post that was not in any way controversial but meant to be informative?
For me to regard you as a a "Combatant" is exaggerating your ability by several orders of magnitude
And at last a truthful statement
" I, m looking stupid arguing with you at moment"
What is new about that? you are at least consistent!
And you finish with this
" at current standards, I, m fecked. Quaint language indeed, which fits rather well with your earlier remark
"Its utter rubbish and sounds like the ravings of a mad person who has English as their 10th language.

Attacking me without cause because you have a guilty conscience is a silly thing to do
I shouldn't have to point out to you that people will judge your character from the content and intent of your posts.

 

[Fingers]

Opening up more time for illness is a sad fact though. The medics have been good at extending life and curing illness, but not very good at stopping illness occurring in the first place

My brother's is the most recent example. His heart was failing with repeated attacks, so open heart surgery fitted him with a new heart valve.

That gave him the chance to suffer bowel cancer two years later.
.

Did he not enjoy those 2 extra years?

 

[Danidl]

That tho Danidl would almost guarantee a no deal. Uk are in more of a bargaining position than you assume. Besides, whats to be gained by saying no to a minor delay...

If Westminister had agreed the deal by 14 march, there would be no point in granting an extension.
Unless a deal were imminent there would be no point .
The only bargining position the UK has is that the EU wants to retain the integrity of the current structure
Can you not see the hardening of attitudes?

 

[Zlatan]

If Westminister had agreed the deal by 14 march, there would be no point in granting an extension.
Unless a deal were imminent there would be no point .
The only bargining position the UK has is that the EU wants to retain the integrity of the current structure
Can you not see the hardening of attitudes?

Yes from both sides, we, ll get a no deal.

 

[oldgroaner]

Did he not enjoy those 2 extra years?

How crass can you be to ask that? couldn't you be a bit more sensitive?

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes from both sides, we, ll get a no deal.

They will either sign May's Deal or sign it and get a referendum to confirm public acceptance to protect their backsides.
And well they might!
When Brexit goes Belly up scapegoats will be sought, found, and given rather more than the sort of roasting Corbyn gets in the press.

 

[flecc]

Did he not enjoy those 2 extra years?

Only initially for a short period before the bowel problems gradually led to the cancer.

However, he'd already made up his mind about an end. The heart valve he had fitted has a limited life but the doctors advised he could have the operation repeated if it started to fail. But he'd already decided back then that he wouldn't go through it again, once was more than enough for him.
.

 

[Fingers]

Only initially for a short period before the bowel problems gradually led to the cancer.

However, he'd already made up his mind about an end. The heart valve he had fitted has a limited life but the doctors advised he could have the operation repeated if it started to fail. But he'd already decided back then that he wouldn't go through it again, once was more than enough for him.
.

A brave man.

 

[oldgroaner]

How Britannia will rule after Brexit
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6588135/Defence-secretary-Gavin-Williamson-wanted-UK-forces-target-Spanish-ships-PAINTBALL-guns.html
Defence secretary Gavin Williamson wanted UK forces to target Spanish ships with PAINTBALL guns to keep them away from Gibraltar

• Illegal incursions by Spanish vessels stands at two a day now, up by 275 in a year
• Suggestion left Chief of Defence Staff General Sir Nick Carter 'rolling his eyes'
• Williamson has been dubbed Private Pike after ditsy character from Dad's Army

And here is the Spanish response

 

[Fingers]

How crass can you be to ask that? couldn't you be a bit more sensitive?

Stop trying to cause trouble you vile troll.

 

[Zlatan]

How crass can you be to ask that? couldn't you be a bit more sensitive?

Its not at all. Flecc wouldnt have broached subject had he not been willing to answer questions. Its a fair question which Flecc and I sort of covered.
Seems to me folk actually " enjoying" the time is not that important. Its how valueable the time is. People live in hope and "enjoy" things us in a better situation take for granted. My mum had a torid time in her last year but saw great grandson, went to his christening and even with what she went through I think she would have done same again given choice. I dont think it was an enjoyable time for her but it was valueble to her. Not sure I could go through it , but do we have a choice???
My father died at 55, years ago, I, m pretty sure he, d have rather gone through same as step dad in his last years of life at 97 than leave his family when he did.
It was a fair question, but does anybody actually know answer.

 

[flecc]

May be of some interest:

On this link is information about a radio program concerned with how Northern Ireland is being run by civil servants rather than government in the absence of a sitting Assembly

 

[50Hertz]

My brother's is the most recent example. His heart was failing with repeated attacks, so open heart surgery fitted him with a new heart valve.

That gave him the chance to suffer bowel cancer two years later.
.

I’m sorry to hear that. My father died of bowel cancer which spread to his liver. However, there is something which appeals to my dark sense of humour in the way you have written it.

 

[Wicky]

You were right. At 78 years and at the end of 14 years of suffering from a slowly failing heart despite interventions, she was finally slipping away peacefully in hospital, fully aware that it was the end and perfectly contented.

Suddenly all hell was let loose as the crash trolley arrived with it's crew and she was being pummelled and shocked back into life.

Afterwards she was furious that they'd done that so needlessly.

Three months later she finally died a very slow and horrific death over several days, gasping for breath as she gradually drowned in her own lung fluids that the doctors couldn't control.

I've long been of the opinion that the Hippocratic Oath to preserve life that doctors take should be abandoned. It was fine when all doctors had was aspirin, a hot poultice and kind words, but now they have the power to prolongue life into extreme cruelty, a different standard is needed.
.

Patient or family just need to chat to medics stating they want NFR / not consent to any life prolonging treatment. And towards end clearly state they want their relative made 'comfortable', say in a sideroom and morphine to be administered as required.

 

[anotherkiwi]

food price has gone up a lot faster than bikes, TVs or fridges. So $1.90 a day would buy less food now than back in the 80s even after average inflation.
They should really compare absolute powerty to the price of 2 Big Macs a day.

I pay 13€ a day rent and I live in social housing...